Two second gain in Hole Shot ! Two second gain in Hole Shot !
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    Two second gain in Hole Shot !
from Dave D #12397  
1/1/2010 8:27:37 PM

Rated:

 So You have an oppertunity to get involved in this product,
some of the biggest names in the Bass Boat idustery have
tested it, Those test results show a Two plus second gain in hole shot,lower on plain speed, gain in fuel mpg, plus a few other low end performance gains WITH NO effect on mid range or high end. It should cost around $500 .
My Question to you is.
Do you believe there would be a interest/Market for such a product .


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   Yep.... from stp357  1/1/2010 9:05:16 PM
 It's called a whale tale!


    Thanks 357 from Dave D #12397  1/1/2010 9:32:17 PM
  Thanks for the response and the information their (STP), but you Have not answer the ? All the claims I have made are (true) It is a new idea that very few have seen, it is not a whale tail. I sure would like some serious replies to this, and I will supply Pictures to any one in the marine industery .


   From my point of view from Randy B  1/1/2010 10:01:12 PM
 I don't think I'd spend $500 for that. If it was a built-in feature of a particular outboard engine, you could probably get the $500 buried into the outboard cost, but (for me) $500 seems like a lot for an aftermarket incremental improvement.


Now if you offered 5mph faster on the top end for $500, I think people would be more interested.


   Ok that sounded flippant from stp357  1/1/2010 11:15:09 PM
 But the truth is, it sounds exactly like it will do the same thing that a whale tail does, so therefore in my opinion I don't think there will be of much interest. But don't let my opinion stop you. If you believe in it, maybe others will also. Good luck to you sir.


   Too good to be true? from recklessbasser  1/2/2010 12:59:00 AM
 I would think most boaters would want some kind of money back guarantee. The market your after is most likely an experienced group on the whole(those wanting the most out of their rig). They most likely know how different props, setback, weight distribution effect performance. I think it'll be a hard sell. The product sounds good if it can be substantiated.


   2 seconds from Wayne P.  1/2/2010 8:23:45 AM
 This will do the same for $35


Doel-Fin Hydrofoil Planing Stabilizer by StingRay


   "Two plus second gain in hole shot" from Fisherboy #10852  1/2/2010 9:27:22 AM
 


Now why in the hell would I want to add "two-plus seconds" to my holeshot? ...


Now a 2-second reduction in holeshot would be great ... ya might want to work on the marketing and proposal aspect of the product.


Furthermore, I fish a lot of shallow areas, where you need to get on a plane "right now" or wait for the next tide, so I would be interested in something like that.


And how do you know it's going to cost $500? Have you figured in manufacturing cost, wholesale price and MSRP for retailers? Is it really going to cost me $500?


   SOunds like something... from RobShaw  1/2/2010 9:32:04 AM
  that came standard on my boat...hmmm

but its multi-patented...so Im sure its not that.

Edited 1/2/2010 10:56:56 AM


   Great replies Thank you from Dave D #12397  1/2/2010 11:15:46 AM
  Good information, Your first thoughts are to compare this to a Cavation plate mounted Hydrofoil, Basser, the guys with knowledge in boat performance are the just the people I would like to have try this. Fisherboy, This is just what you need and If you start from there we can get you a Four second gain. I think Rob has a Gambler, Great boat Rob this unit is easy to mount on any boat no holes to drill.

Edited 1/2/2010 11:27:13 AM


   I like Gamblers but do not own one. I was referring to the factory skid planer on my hull. from RobShaw  1/2/2010 11:26:33 AM
 

.


   I think I'll invent from MikeF  1/2/2010 11:28:00 AM
 I think I'll invent a product and call it a trim tab. That way you can use it for the hole shot and then trim them up so there's no drag at speed. Wonder if they would sell. LOL


   they work very well Mike from RobShaw  1/2/2010 11:32:49 AM
 On Gamblers. That the only personal experience I have with trim tabs on bass boats. My regon partner had a 21' Gambler with tabs and it was a hell of a boat!


   Rob, MikeF from Dave D #12397  1/2/2010 11:37:55 AM
 Rob, I like Gamblers to But That is a Machine, this will give you more than you have with the skid plainer. Mike, What took you so long ?


   so Dave from MikeF  1/2/2010 2:33:03 PM
 What's your product...


   Mike F from Dave D #12397  1/2/2010 7:34:58 PM
 Mike, This product will do everything that I have listed and then some, I am not trying to sell them to you, just looking for some honest input. The question is do you feel there is a market for such a product within the Bass boat industery ? Or would you be interested in the performance gains listed above for your boat ?


   well, let's talk about value from Randy B  1/2/2010 11:05:23 PM
 So, I think your question is not very answerable. If someone asks me to give them $500, I'm going to want to see the product and believe it for myself before I would say I want it.


So if it looks like $40 worth of plastic (the whaletail), I am not so inclined to spend $500. If it contains some mechanical complexity, like a trim tab or a variable pitch prop, well maybe that's going to seem better matched to $500.


So since you don't want to reveal your idea, I don't think you're going to get much better input. I suggest you find some people you trust and share it with them and get some feedback.


   exactly how from MikeF  1/3/2010 11:55:58 AM
 Without sounding like a smartass exactly how do you expect an answer to that question without more information.


   There are currently several thing on the market to help holeshot from Spookchucker #10778  1/3/2010 4:25:07 PM
 Among them are the whale tail and similar cavitation plate extendors, skid plates for the jackplate, filling jackplates with air via balls or styrofoam, propping down a little & having the prop worked, going to props with more blades, adding negative tuck with wedges. And for motor mods lightening the flywheel, adding compression, kicking up timing, fiber reeds, reducing crankcase volume, piston porting, and other more expensive mods.


Is your idea outside these and similar currently available products?


   The best way to get a 2 sec hole shot... from BobW #11279  1/3/2010 6:25:31 PM
 empty some of your gear. Make your boat lighter and you'll gain a lot more and save money over all on gas. I know it's hard not to bring everything on every trip but give it a try. It worked for me. I got the 30+ rods down to 12-15 and halved my plano 370's to about a dozen and a lot more. BobW


   What we have is ! from Dave D #12397  1/4/2010 11:25:40 AM
  Trim tab/tabs that are controled and powered by the outboard trim system, lower the outboard to the last inch of travel,and with in that last inch of travel the trim tab is lowered ( Activated ) trim the outboard up and in the first inch of travel the trim plate is lifted ( no effect )
What makes this unique is the one control (outboard trim button ) and no seperate power unit, it all works when you use your outboard trim. The performance numbers listed above are from independent tests.
I will forward pictures to supplied e mail address.



   Sounds interesting from JoePA #10479  1/4/2010 2:27:06 PM
 Not a bad idea. Would be interested in seeing something like this. How do we get pics?


   Pictures from Dave D #12397  1/4/2010 2:32:53 PM
  Give me your email address, I will send them


   how would fuel economy be affected? from Randy B  1/4/2010 4:15:26 PM
 In the original post, Dave said that it would help fuel economy. If it is helped, I don't think it would be much except for people who slow-troll with their big motor (a pretty small crowd) or something similar to that.


What am I missing?


   Fuel from Dave D #12397  1/4/2010 4:53:04 PM
  Randy, I will try to explain this time but it seems you are just looking to be negitive, Think positive my friend. OK ( Fuel ) You will be using 1/4 to 1/2 throttle/power to reach plain, less throttle less gas consumption, A very large part of fuel consumption is the direct result of getting on plain.

Edited 1/4/2010 5:01:54 PM


   Thanks for the answer from Randy B  1/4/2010 5:16:45 PM
 I'm not trying to think negative or positive. I just like to think.


Anyways, I agree there would be some fuel consumption difference during the holeshot, but after you are on-plane, the boat should have the same fuel economy as usual (except for the small added weight of the new hardware).


So someone doing a lot of starting/stopping would see some fuel savings. Someone getting on-plane and running 50 miles to a spot would see little.


The other question that came to my mind was the impact on the hydraulics. The reservoir size was designed assumed the only cylinders and piping involved is the outboard tilt/trim. Of course, you have to add enough new fluid to fill the new tab cylinders, but I think volume would be okay after that. The pump just has to run extra time at the bottom of the cycle.


I'd think that the outboard manufacturers might complain about using their tilt/trim as a PTO. People would want to be assured that their warranty would remain in force.


Sorry to be negative, but you asked what we would think. These are the things that I thunk.


   agree with the tabs from MikeF  1/4/2010 5:50:24 PM
 I wouldn't have a boat without them, I've never understood why bassboats don't have them. But I would not want them controlled by the motor trim.


   Ok from Dave D #12397  1/4/2010 8:27:23 PM
  If for some crazy reason a seperatly powered/controled trim tab was lowered at high speed you would be in for a very wild very wet ride , That can not happen with this system. And again looking for negitive you some how come up with the belief this taps into the outboard hydraulic system, ( WRONG ) OK I asked for opinions Randy B you gave yours....


   here's what you said from Randy B  1/4/2010 9:19:02 PM
  You said "Trim tab/tabs that are controled and powered by the outboard trim system, lower the outboard to the last inch of travel,and with in that last inch of travel the trim tab is lowered ( Activated ) trim the outboard up and in the first inch of travel the trim plate is lifted ( no effect )
What makes this unique is the one control (outboard trim button ) and no seperate power unit, it all works when you use your outboard trim."


Maybe my reading of the english language is not very good, but I really took that to mean that you are powering and controlling these trim tabs from the outboard trim system.


I'm pretty thick. What powers these trim tabs if it's not the hydraulics from the outboard's trim system?


Since Dave is getting pissed off at me, someone else could help me?

Maybe he means that there are something like limit switches on the outboard that check the trim position and activate some electric motors that are integral to the trim tabs.

Edited 1/4/2010 9:22:04 PM


   Some of the best advantages of tabs... from SurFishaLot #12110  1/4/2010 9:55:52 PM
 can only be achieved with independent control of the Port and Starboard tabs. Having both tabs one control would improve hole shot, but it won't approach the all of the benefits of independent tabs.


I'm not a speed demon, but in the right situation it's pretty darn cool to have independent control of engine trim, jackplate, and two tabs.


Electric/hydraulic trim tabs = the best ~$500 you'll ever spend on a handling upgrade.



   Best advantages from Dave D #12397  1/4/2010 10:40:08 PM
  Thank you SurFishaLot, could not agree more, The main use or our system is to improve Hole Shot on a performance Bass Boat at a reasonable cost, I belive the independent left and right side tab system would have many advantages over single controled tabs on a larger heaver boat, Believe they are $500 each and some are much more. We have tested our single system on some larger stern drive IO's with great results, we were looking at just the gain in hole shot though.


   I'd be interested in seeing the pics... from SurFishaLot #12110  1/4/2010 11:17:36 PM
 I could see this as potentially beneficial for seriously quick holeshots for jumping on plane in shallow water in a flats boat.


Many flats boats already run tabs and a jackplate for this purpose, but a third (or even a fourth) tab might not be a bad thing.


It would have to work in combination with a jacked-up engine though. If the engine has to be jacked down and within the bottom inch of trim travel to have any effect, nothing is gained.


You might find better traction in the redfish market than in the bass market. The flats guys generally care as much (or more) about holeshot than any other performance factor.


   Fishalot from Dave D #12397  1/5/2010 9:49:34 AM
 This works with the outboard trim not the lift of a hyd plate so the moter can be high with the trim down, Though we do have the rights to a jack plate travel controled plate, Give me your email address and I will send you pictures,


   I'll take a set from Fisherboy #10852  1/5/2010 11:10:30 AM
 


You can e-mail them to gair69 (at) yahoo.com


   pics from JoePA #10479  1/5/2010 12:33:40 PM
 Clay_243 at yahoo . com


   Oh what the heck... from Toonafish  1/5/2010 3:21:37 PM
 Send me some pics too Dave...if I like them, I'll add them to my website....if you're interested.


angler557@yahoo.com


Brian


   Patent info from Fisherboy #10852  1/5/2010 5:00:50 PM
 
A pretty good read if you got the time:


http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&r=1&l=50&f=G&d=PALL&s1=6923136.PN.&OS=PN/6923136&RS=PN/6923136



   JoePA from Dave D #12397  1/5/2010 11:07:34 PM
 Email will not go to that address


   got them from JoePA #10479  1/6/2010 10:10:04 PM
 Dave,
I got the pics. I like! $500 is a little steep for me but I like the idea. Cut that cost in half and maybe. If I'm going to spend $500 I'll get a hyd plate. Certainly not knocking the idea as It really is simple and almost fail proof. Is there a pump or is everything mechanical?


   apparently there are lots of patent infringers out there from Randy B  1/6/2010 10:12:44 PM
  http://forums.screamandfly.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201578&page=2
   Joe PA from Dave D #12397  1/6/2010 11:32:40 PM
 Joe, The $500 is just a number I will have to give it a price that is exceptable, or we are not going to sell to many, That model is all mechanical though the patent includes hyd, electric, cable, most any kind of power that uses the trim travel or the travel of a hyd jackplate to activate the tab.


   Randy , Tell me about it ! from Dave D #12397  1/6/2010 11:43:40 PM
 Randy, I will take a look thanks, and the spring you mention above is a return spring, if it broke the tab would flap harmlessly behind the boat could make quite racket though, as I said I have had these on my boats since 02 whith out a failure, wish I could get results like that from a bunch of other products,


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