Bass boat livewell oxygen levels and weigh in bags tested – disturbing DO test results clearly demonstrates bass boat deathwells and kill bags published July 5, 2012 Bass boat livewell oxygen levels and weigh in bags tested – disturbing DO test results clearly demonstrates bass boat deathwells and kill bags published July 5, 2012
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    Bass boat livewell oxygen levels and weigh in bags tested – disturbing DO test results clearly demonstrates bass boat deathwells and kill bags published July 5, 2012
from Te #14139 #14139  
7/6/2012 9:40:38 AM

Rated:

  The livewell water pumps are running, spray bars aerating the livewell water as usual and this boat livewell would be classed as having a “Functional Livewell” by most tournament officials, now let the tournament begin. That’s the old tournament shill game played out thousand of times in July and August bass tournaments by tournament officials responsible for certifying bass boat livewells as “Functional Livewell.” What is a “Functional Livewell? What really defines a “Functional Livewell? And what makes a bass boat livewell really Functional?”


A functional livewell must contain water that must be safe for all the fish being transported all day long in the summer or any other time of the year.


Bass boat livewell (aerated) water quality reality is really deadly, a very different story claims Carl Wengenroth and his dissolved oxygen meter test results. His DO meter does not lye and the facts he consistently found speak clearly about bass boat livewell dissolved oxygen water reality with bass in aerated boat livewell. The reality is that aerated livewells are not safe nor functional when they contain a tournament limit of bass in July in Texas.


Carl tested aerated livewells in bass boats and weigh in bags and proved to himself and others interested exactly why they are so deadly and really “nonfunctional livewells” that are predictable to consistently fail to provide even minimal safe dissolved oxygen levels in the summer contrary to all the myths, testimonials and hype that everything in bass boat livewells is OK. How many times have you heard tournament officials and boat salesmen say, don’t worry your catch in our boat livewells, be happy, catch more fish.”


Mr. Carl Wengenroth and his dissolved oxygen meter have blown the lid off these myths with his DO meter. Don’t be shy, check out what Carl has found and published http://lonestarbass.com/bass-fishing/livewell-care-for-bass-step-by-step-a-day-on-the-water/blished July 5, 2012


Carl writes, “Main thing that was shown was a lack of oxygen in the [bass boat] livewells . And everytime I have tested mine without the oxygen, running just aereators, after a full 8 hours when I was lucky enough to have 15 lbs. or better for 5 , the ppm in my livewell was less than 4 ppm. I was basically slow cooking and oxygen starving my fish.”


“A study/experiment I also did was at a club weigh-in where I put the D.O. probe in every livewell AND every weigh-in bag as they came to the scale . Every single boat with just aereators running were less than 4 ppm. Some have foam so bad in them that it covered the surface . This was just lake water and aereators . No ice , oxygen , nothing but boat equipment . It was august time of year wise . The weigh bags were even worse , and that's how we came up with the 2 minute deal for the bags . With a probe in it, that's how long it took to go ppm wise in the toilet . And we have observed people keeping fish in weigh in line bags for up to 15 minutes . ”


Carl Wengenroth
National Conservation Director – International Federation of Black Bass Anglers
The Anglers Lodge/Tackle Shop
8969 Hwy. 90 West
Del Rio, Texas 78840
(830)775-1586 Lodge
(830)775-1763 Tackle


(830)719-9907 cell


Give Carl a call and find out more about these deadly livewell issues.


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   And their off! from Oneeyedjack #13663 #13663  7/6/2012 9:53:04 AM
 nm


   is International Federation of Black Bass Anglers a racist organization? from Beartrap   7/6/2012 10:51:13 AM
 or can honkies join?...inquiring minds need to know these things

Beartrap
   Trap from Skipper  7/6/2012 11:59:25 AM
 I don't think Bronzeback guys are welcome here.


   So from g2072  7/6/2012 12:05:58 PM
 Are you trying to say that in July and August when I fish a tournament I just need to eat all the fish I weigh in because they are going to die anyway. I wouldn't want them to go to waste.


   My thoughts from Skipper  7/6/2012 12:44:11 PM
 In nearly every case when a sport fish or wildlife species has become "Popular" with sportsmen we have found ways through management of the resource to see to it that the species thrives. Deer are one of the most abundant large game species in the nation and they are by far the most hunted and the most killed species there is. Still, their numbers continue to increase. We manage deer locally in every state by limiting the harvest numbers, the gender of the harvest, size (number of antlers or spread) seasons, all sorts of things go into it and sportsmen willingly participate with management to see to it that the species thrives.


We've done the same with Turkey, Elk, Black Bear, ducks, geese, and all sorts of other species. The 1 exception to this is and has been for a while now Upland Birds such as Quail. For whatever reasons that be those species haven't responded well to management.


As it relates to Bass. There are plenty of bass in our waters. More bass than at any time during my lifetime. It is evident that we have through management techniques such as size limits, creel limits, and catch and release happened onto a formula that works. We have an ample supply of bass to support tournament fishing and meat fishing alike. Yes, in some locales there may need to be some minor tweaks here and there, but in general things appear to be working fine.


g2072 is right. We have every right to cart our creel of legally caught fish home and put knives to them. If that level of harvest hurts the population then management steps need to be taken such as reducing creels or increasing size limits. The fact that we attempt to keep them alive and release them to some is better than the alternative. Yes, some die. Turtles have to eat too you know. However, a good portion of them survive. You haven't fished long at all if you haven't caught bass that have been caught before. In our last tournament we had a guy break one off and then 2 hours later caught the same fish with his other bait in it's mouth.


I do my best to make sure my fish survive. However sometimes they don't. I do know this, if you are trying to sell me an oxygen system by using the tactics you are using, it's not working and in fact it's going the other way. I don't want to be bullied into buying it. I have looked into a bubbling system for my livewells and the reason being there are advantages to the product v's the pumping systems which do break down, cause leaks, and are difficult to maintain. The air systems seem simpler and better, but I don't need bullied into them and I'm not going to inject pure oxygen in the back of my boat into anyting. That's way too dangerous.


   Just a sales pitch... from Randy B  7/6/2012 1:36:18 PM
  Here's a link where Carl is pitching his system.


http://www.austinbassfishing.com/forum/conservation-ethics/24297-new-pure-oxygen-system-boat-livewells.html


At
st in that posting, he's not talking about himself in the 3rd person or using a non-sponsor user registration for commercial purposes.


   I've seen this on several sites from Jeff Hahn  7/6/2012 2:54:20 PM
 I've seen this sales pitch on several bass fishing sites. I don't know the merit of his system, but until it is subjected to tests by an independent source, I won't bite.


Jeff Hahn


   What Beartrap said.. from Tubejig  7/6/2012 5:57:10 PM
 I'd like to see the answer to your question.



   Oxygen systems from Ralph Manns  7/6/2012 6:00:48 PM
 There is more than ample evidence that increasing oxygen in livewells increases bass survival. The only remaining debate is about how to convince some bass tournament anglers really care about post-release mortality and to use the better systems and handling techniques.


It is apparently much easier to pooh-pooh the data than it is to just go ahead, accept reality, and take steps to better treat the bass we catch and inter in livewells for dollars.


   ElietePros from tlkl1 #17667  7/6/2012 8:24:51 PM
 Are not some of the pros on the eliete trail useing oxygen infusion systems?


   at the weekend series events in md from 1bigsnakehead #18631  7/6/2012 9:34:09 PM
 md dnr would come down and monitor oxygen content in the release boat. once it fell to a certain point, they made them dump the fish. if never made it to the end of weighin. even with direct oxygen injection into the aerators it still could not hold to up to the number of bass in there or possibly even the temp conditions. but lets face it. fishing kills fish. regardless of what you do, some will die.


   It just has to come out....... in the genes I guess..... from Hutch #10968 #10968  7/7/2012 12:51:56 AM
 "It is apparently much easier to pooh-pooh the data than it is to just go ahead, accept reality, and take steps to better treat the bass we catch and inter in livewells for dollars"
That would imply that putting bass on a metal stringer and pitching them in the lake is okay...... so long as they are eaten by poor people and the "rich boys" are evil demons when they occasionaly have a mortality rate of even 2 percent for mishandling fish and probably 100 other untested and unknown reasons. It would also imply that a majority of tournament fisherman mishandle fish , WHICH JUST IS NOT SO.... hmmmmmmm Yep...... must be in the genes of libs.... Next thing you know we will hear of someone in an 8 ft Bass Buster trying to negotiate the waters off the California coast to run 90-125 nautical miles offshore....Lake Fork is but a training ground...... Please Ralph....... do not mention unbiased scientific testing to me again.... PLEASE, PLEASE!! Hutch


   IMHO - A few thoughts to consider from Te #14139 #14139  7/7/2012 7:13:00 AM
 I’m not an animal activist nor a PETA person, but when (not if) these activist find out just how deadly aerated bass boat livewells and bass bags really are in summer tournaments and that tournament fishermen are intentionally not providing safe dissolved oxygen levels for the catch when they could be and keeping wild captive animals captivity for 7-8 hours in tournaments just for fun and profit; well that may be a moral PR problem, a legal problem and a political problem as well that could get out of hand like another wildfire in Colorado next week.


It is my understanding that deadly hypoxic aerated bass boat livewells are precisely the reason the WI DNR put B.A.S.S. on a short leash thus effectively eliminating some of that tournament kill last week – not enough oxygen in the livewell for the all the catch. I would expect to see more restrictions applied to summer bass tournament fishing in the future after the WI DNR rulings. I understand they are now considering only catch and kill tournaments for July and August. Obviously from the WI DNR stand point it’s really OK to kill the catch if you have a valid state fishing license and a fishing tournament permit. Just call it bass catch and kill tournaments for 2 months in the summer and presto… tournament bass kills are regulated and become a non issue with a simple DNR official signature. PETA and other complainers that whine about tournament bass kills are effectively neutralized immediately. All accomplished not by better tournament fish care, but by new imposed state game regulations that directly affect bass tournament fishing; catch and kill bass tournaments only. And have a free fish fry for contestants families and visitors which would bring bigger crowds to the tournaments. Free food brings in the people all over the world. Of course there may be issues with serving contaminated fish that’s been soaking in who knows what kind of livewell chemicals all day. If some have blue lips from chemical stains which is probably Methylene blue dye. They say these fish chemicals won’t hurt you, they’re good for the fish and safe for you to eat although the chemicals are not FDA approved for use on food fish. We always want to give our contaminated kill to the poor and old folks homes, more free food for these people.


Mr. Wengenroth has enteres a taboo place in bass tournament world and opened Pandora’s box for all to see with his DO meter testing. He has "stuck his probe” into bass boat livewells and weigh in bags, now what’s a tournament director and fisherman to do … as usually we will try to stick our heads back in the sand again, punt, deny, deny, deny and continue to do nothing but whine, complain and demand more studies… kick the can down the road as long as possible as usual.


I bet that in Texas, TPWD may provide direction and tighter regulation of summer bass tournaments to encourage bass clubs and tournament orgs. with effective guidance to try harder to really provide the best bass care in bass boat livewells and weighin bags before PETA and the politicians come and stand on our necks with their jack-boots. If history is correct, I’m afraid the bass tournament business will not choose a better fish care route voluntarily and state game will require regulation in order to motivation fishermen and tournament officials like the WI DNR has done.


Carl has sounded the alarm and is now an official “whistle blower.” This could clearly be an animal cruelty issue when fishermen knowingly transport wild fish in deadly livewell environments intentionally without enough oxygen for 7-8 hours in summer tournaments. Every state has animal cruelty laws designed to protect domesticated animals and wild animals from people that fail to properly care for them and keep the in safe environments in captivity. Carl with his DO Probe has proven beyond any doubt that fishermen using aerated bass boat livewells and bass bags are suffocating their catch with his summer research. And who’s responsible for the well being of the catch? Well, fishermen and tournament officials should be, they catch with hook and line, transport and have possession of all the catch for 8-9 hours.


Just brainstorming what could come now if we continue and refuse to choose a better attitude and continue to do nothing about the deadly summer tournament boat livewell conditions, etc. that Carl has discovered, exposed and published. He’s a tournament conservation director in Texas and was kind enough to share information with us.


Carl believes in providing the best tournament bass care possible and he’s not shy about shaking this old tree. He’s motivated and he’s got the DO proof that aerated bass boat livewells and bass bags containing fish are really deadly in the summer. He has proven that aerated bass boat livewells are “Not Functional“ in the summer when they contain fish by any stretch of the imagination, they are hypoxic deathwells and death bags at weigh-in lines. He makes a extremely strong case pointing out poor tournament fish care and neglect caused by aerated bass boat livewells and bass bags in the summer. That poor care is by choice now he has educated and informed us of the problems and how to provide better bass care.


Regulation could be avoided if only tournament directors and fishermen would only choose to provide minimal safe boat livewell care for the catch.


I believe we may see more State Game Agencies reduce summer tournament bass kills through regulation putting tournament directors and tournament fishermen in a little box like WI DNR did with B.A.S.S. shorter boat rides, with boundaries and strict limitations, which was necessary in Wisconsin in 2012.


   Livewells from EdgemanP #12082 #12082  7/7/2012 11:33:31 PM
 I can't speak for anyone else, but whenever I fish a tournament during the summer, and generally when the water surface temp is consistently reaching above 75 degrees, I have frozen bottles of water that I put in the livewell to keep the water cooler.


The article above states that only the aerators were used, but no other care was given to keep the bass alive, and it was during the summer, in Texas. Most tournament fishermen know that's a recipe for disaster.


As a sales pitch, this is an insult.


   Just a sales pitch?...I don't think so from Hoot  7/8/2012 9:29:55 AM
  there are some very valid points brought up here and the usual ramblings of denial.


If you don't think Carl's data is correct and presented in the best interest of fish care then just say so and offer a counter opinion based on your scientific findings.


If you don't give a Ratz's behind about fish care during those hot summer tournaments. If it's more important to you to have tournaments during the Dog Days of Summer and you could care less whether the fish you caught survive just say so.


If doing something to improve the survivability of keeper sized Bass whether it is an oxygenated system,limiting the number of Summer Tournaments, reducing the number of fish weighed in (3 fish limits instead of 5),using the ice, shortened tournament hours isn't any concern to you then say so instead of dismissing Carl's data as just a sales pitch.


If that indeed is asking way too much and you think we have so many Bass that we don't need those 4-5 pounders, for future breeding stock or for them to continue to grow and be caught again enhancing the overall fishing experience.
Since a meat hunter who doesn't have near the Bass fishing knowledge or equipment that you have might eventually get lucky and catch it anyway... So you might as well let it die as long as you got your picture taken at the weigh in and maybe got a little check that won't finance your tournament fishing.


I hope the anti fishing and anti tournament folks aren't cut & pasting posts off of these sites as they'll have plenty of ammunition to lobby for new regulations and fuel their PR Campaign.


Edited 7/8/2012 11:02:58 AM


   MN DNR trumps FLW Bass Tournaments with stricter regulation to reduce tournament fish kills from Te #14139 #14139  7/9/2012 10:21:11 AM
 
What I believe caused this rule to be proposed is this: An FLW Bass Tournament wanted an off-site permit for a Walmart weigh-in. The DNR denied it, and Irwin Jacobs went over the DNR's head and appealed to the Governor. The permit got approved. This did not sit well with DNR Commissioner Merriam who reviewed the existing rules and felt they didn't have "enough teeth" in them to deny the permit. He instructed the DNR to toughen up the rules, so this end run could never happen again.


What should be mandated is that livewells may need to be more closely monitored during the event to insure that temperature and oxygen levels are sufficient. Ice and chemicals may be needed. Weigh-ins need to orderly and fish must be kept cool and quiet. After being weighed, they need to be quickly placed in a holding tank that has a efficient temperature control and aeration system, that provides life support, sufficient water ratios to pounds of fish and then transported or released in a manner that ensures survival.


Rather then ban summer catch and release events Tournament organizers need to be provided good information and the MN DNR needs to be on-site, [ testing and recording DO levels in all bass boats livewells, bass bags, weigh-in tanks and release boat livewells – insuring that livewells are really ‘functional livewells’] not at 500 Lafayette Road, composing restrictions.


Press release 2012 – By Vern “Buzz” Wagner http://www.classicbass.com/pr61912.htm
If you’re not familiar with Buzz’s outstanding conservation work over many years; Google - Vern Wagner, MN B.A.S.S. Conservation Director – click it, see his work and meet him.


This is not any sales pitch or insult stomping on out pride either. This is reality and another State's Politicians and State Game Agency Regulating and implemented new laws and regulations aimed at reducing excessive summer tournament bass kills. Helping us provide better tournament fish care whether we want better fish care of not, like it or not.


   There was a major tournament on Lake Minnetonka from Hoot  7/9/2012 10:52:39 AM
  a highly developed metro lake near Minneapolis and it was quite a successful one in the number of quality fish weighed in. It was decided to hold the weigh in at the Mall of America to generate a lot of free publicity so the fish were all in the live wells during the considerable journey from Minnetonka to the Mall.


The fishermen did a good job of caring for the fish but the tournament organizers really dropped the ball and there wasn't the necessary or proper care for the weighed in fish and transporting them to be released. It was down right disgusting how they expected to transport those fish. Mortality was high and fortunately there didn't seem to be a ton of real bad press on it at the time.


Evidently the Minnesota DNR took notice and took action. To this date neither major tournament organization has ever returned to Minnetonka. If you look at the number of high dollar boats, the value of homes and the number of vibrant businesses around Minnetonka it's easy to see that their economy isn't hinging on BASS or the FLW. I think they'd pay them a fee to stay away as they didn't seem to enthused when they were there the first time.


If the tournament Bass fishing world on any level chooses to be defiant and non nonchalant about fish care instead of proactive thinking the money a tournament brings in is the answer to everything. You might just find someone else being reactive and making those decisions for you.


BASS has taken a lot of flack over the years but you have to applaud their continuous efforts and PR Campaign in post tournament release.


   Aerators and Oxygen levels from FOM Alabama South #10487 #10487  7/9/2012 12:30:31 PM
 Have any of you checked into the Keep Alive Systems? Tom has had an aerator that has a hose hooked to it that when hooked up correctly it pulls oxygen from the air and puts it into the water. We use it on our Alabama South Division of the Fishers of Men tournament trail and I have one set up to use in my boat. We have revived many fish over the years by putting the sickly bass in our holding tanks for a while pumping the oxygen into the tanks. I forgot about some fish I had in my livewell last year and had my unit running. My boat was on the trailer at the time. The fish had been in the livewell for about 6 hours or so and when I checked on them they tried to jump through the livewell door. Granted these fish didn't matter if they lived or died that day. They had an appointment with some hot oil. His system works great for us. Just a thought. God Bless, Allen


   Fish Care from EdgemanP #12082 #12082  7/9/2012 4:32:13 PM
 Hoot, I never dismissed the findings. If you read my post, I stated that using only aerators in the summer, is a recipe for disaster. Don't get it twisted.


There are many things that can be done to decrease fish mortality and delayed mortality during summer tournaments. I didn't see any listed in the article. I didn't add anything to it, and I don't make assumptions about people stating their opinions.


For all the years that I've been tournament fishing, I can count the fish that I have had die in my livewells on my fingers, and wouldn't use them all.So, before you assume that I'm dismissing the data, make sure that what you are ASSUMING is the truth.



   Lake Minnetonka Bass Kill – More Deadly Tournament Bass Bags - see DO chart from Te #14139 #14139  7/11/2012 8:16:40 AM
 
“Those Tournaments are Still Killing Fish”
Posted on June 22, 2012 by Tim Lesmeister


Intentionally withholding life giving Oxygen Kills Tournament Bass in the summer so pay close attention to the bass bag dissolved oxygen depletion chart – those plastic tournament bass bags are deadly in hands of tournament officials and fisherman.


http://www.outdoornews.com/June-2012/Those-Tournaments-are-Still-Killing-Fish/
Bait shops have use plastic bags to transport live fish for years, but they squeeze out all the air in the bag (discare the air,aeration), fill the void gas space with pure compressed oxygen, ¼ bag of water and the rest live fish then transport live fish safely for hours in tightly sealed oxygenated bags – and their live fish never die, but they use pure oxygen not air although air is FREE.


Live bait dealers know much more about live fish care, transporting live fish, keeping fish healthy during transport than major/minor bass tournament clubs, B.A.S.S., FLW, most clubs, etc. all put together. They do this every day and are very successful


Tournament fishermen and tournament directors demanding more study and research is a white elephant, a common distraction ploy, a common magician’s trick to divert public attention; Bass clubs and major Bass Tournaments Orgs. only need to ask any humble live bait dealer anywhere in the US or world for a little help to show them how to transport live fish if they really wanted to do a better fish care job using pure compressed oxygen during transport. Then choose to provide better care for the catch.


Yes, it’s true that Tournament directors, organizers and fishermen would all have to eat some crow, then learn how to keep their catch healthy in those deadly bass bags and bass boat livewells. Then practice what they have learned.


Pride, attitude and arrogance causes a problem for the lonely bass, a deadly problem.


   So Te you are saying from Hutch #10968 #10968  7/11/2012 5:34:20 PM
 That a fisherman catches a bass and then intentionally deprives him of oxygen and it dies in the livewell or in the weigh in bag....and they weigh in the dead fish and then throw them back in the lake to watch them float, is that correct....? Then how come they don't all die all the time? And how come some of them never die any of the time? Hutch


   New Fishing Law Prompts Group to Cancel Annual Tournament 2012 from Te #14139 #14139  7/13/2012 9:19:00 AM
  Washington County, Maine


http://www.wabi.tv/news/28667/new-fishing-law-prompts-group-to-cancel-annual-tournament
Intervention by the Maine Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife has effectively terminates hauling tournament bass in deadly boat livewells.


“The group [The Maine Blade Runners] used to be able to catch the bass and hold them until the tournament ended later in the day, but the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife now requires them to measure them on board and immediately toss them back.


It's a move the state hopes will protect the lake's bass population. The Maine Blade Runners, have decided to cancel their annual tournament at Grand Falls Flowage thanks to a change in the lake's rules.’


New State fishing regulations not only target and affect behavior of large bass tournament Orgs. like B.A.S.S. and FLW but are affecting small tournament clubs like the “Blades.”


"They made Grand Falls Flowage a catch and release only lake. Every fish caught has to be caught and immediately released alive versus being caught, brought to the scales and weighed and then released alive," said Karen Mitchell.


The group used to be able to catch the bass and hold them until the tournament ended later in the day, but the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife now requires them to measure them on board and immediately toss them back.”


This is bass tournament behavior modification and tournament fish care management required by the Law?


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