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SUBJECT: # 2744: Tundra
Submitted by Jp (207.224.205.113) from . on 12/26/1999 11:25:00 PM
I am going to post this on two different boards where some lively discussion on the Tundra truck has been taking place. I do not have any ax to grind. I’m just passing along some first hand information. Last summer there were comparison tests done between the full size Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, and the Toyota Tundra trucks. These tests were repeated in several states. The trucks had 4wd, long cabs and V8 engines. The idea was to see how they stacked up under normal driving and in difficult frame bending/twisting conditions and in mud and water. They were all run through the same acceleration, panic stopping, towing and road tests. They were all driven by many different people with varied driving backgrounds doing the same group of tests. The surprise to almost everyone was that when the dust settled, except for the Tundra, all the trucks had broken in some way. The Chevrolet had an engine problem and a bent frame, the Dodge had a transfer case problem and the Ford had front end suspension damage. The Tundra did not excel in every test but was usually at the top. This does not prove the Tundra is absolutely the best truck for everyone considering that most owners will not put their trucks in these difficult driving conditions. What it might do is allay some concerns expressed on this board about the durability of the Tundra. I have not owned any Dodge or Toyota trucks but I have owned 3 Chevrolet, and two Ford trucks. I liked all 5 of them. They were worked hard at times and remained mostly trouble free and reliable. Will I buy a Tundra next time? Depends. If riding comfort and handling was important, if I was using it to tow a moderate load and if I didn’t need a big back seat the answer is yes. On the other hand, if I had to tow 7000 lbs. and couldn’t live without the big back seat the answer is no. Since none of my trucks had any back seat at all the Tundra’s rear seat does seem pretty large. Hope I haven't upset too many people, however, unbiased information is always a good thing when we’re making a $30k decision.
- 12/27/1999 8:23:00 AM
Submitted by
h20man (38.11.201.38) from TEXAS says Trucks
I am curious as to where this test was published. I read all the truck and 4x4 mags. Read edmonds townhall discussion on trucks and many web sites about trucks and have not see this paticular test refered to.
- 12/27/1999 10:30:00 AM
Submitted by
Premixer (216.192.232.24) from LOUISIANA says TundraSilveradoF150Dodge
This subject has been debated and run into the ground in previous messages.Drive whatever you like and let your neighbor do the same.
- 12/28/1999 4:02:00 PM
Submitted by
Jp (207.224.204.224) from ALABAMA says premixer
Premixer, Please let us know what other subjects are closed so we don't waste our time posting. You are right though, this subject has been discussed a great deal. I won't post any more information on it....
- 12/28/1999 7:32:00 PM
Submitted by
John (152.163.206.204) from FLORIDA says 4 X 4 Trucks
Only three of the trucks could have been 4 X 4 and the Toyota is not one of them. Check it out.
- 12/28/1999 7:43:00 PM
Submitted by
Premixer (216.192.240.17) from LOUISIANA says Jp
I`m also a Toyota man. It seems that when we start quoting specs. and road tests favorable to one brand, owners of the other brands get upset. It`s like 10 year old boys arguing about who has the best bicycle. Tempers flare and name-calling follows. I have given up trying to convince anybody that one brand is better than another. Let them spend their money on Ford`s or GMC`s or whaterver. I`m a very satisfied Toyota owner.
- 1/3/2000 11:25:00 PM
Submitted by
Mike (209.195.241.142) from PENNSYLVANIA says Tundra not required
I couldn't bare to look at Ford, Chevy and Dodge owners from the inside of a Japanese Tundra.(no matter where it was built)
- 1/4/2000 2:01:00 PM
Submitted by
Eagle Eye (161.184.20.242) from Canada says Mike
It is exactly what you just said that keeps the likes of GM turning out expensive but unreliable trucks. They are counting on you feeling that way to sell their products.But when you really look at the issue, GM is exactly the one you should be staying away from. They closed a heck of a pile of factories in the USA and laid off thousands of your countrymen in the process. Then they expanded production in Canada (because of the lower Canadian dollar value) and built some plants in Mexico (for cheap labor). They did this solely for one reason, short term profit. Not quality improvement or a lack of qualified workers in the US, just short term profit. At least with a Tundra you know it was built in the USA and designed in the USA. The bonus is that you are getting quality and reliability at the same time.
Mike, look back to the early 80's and see what happened with cars in the USA. Terrible quality was the rule until the Japanese started bringing in good quality products at reasonable prices. I still remember the feeling of being ripped off when I bought my new Pontiac Firebird in 1979. It was a beautiful and powerful car. Then, I took it to the car wash (the type with hand held sprayers). The paint came off in chunks and the car had less than 500 miles on the odometer! Sure they repainted the car but it shouldn't have happened. That was the first of many experiences I had with GM's crappy quality cars and according to Consumers Magazine and hundreds of thousands of its' subscribers, it is still happening with GM products. If GM would live up to their own advertisements and build a quality, reliable long lasting truck, I would buy one too. Ford on the other hand is building reliable vehicles (not perfect, but better than GM) and they are safer products too. The result is huge profits for Ford and a growing market share worldwide. They got the message years ago, GM didn't.
So carry on with that attitude Mike...GM needs you because without people like you, they would be bankrupt.
- 1/4/2000 7:54:00 PM
Submitted by
Mike (209.195.241.142) from PENNSYLVANIA says GM is back
Eagle eye,I agree with most everything you said about the Japanese/Amercan quality revolution.
1) As far as GM building trucks elswhere, I posted the actual production numbers a couple of weeks ago on another forum. GM builds about 1% of their trucks outside the US>
2) GM builds a better truck than Ford, hands down. 88-up GMs are fantastic and I've owned and driven them both (Ford and GM). Ford quality is the pits. If you had good luck with yours than I understand why you feel like you do. GMs are simply designed and built better. Ever wonder why Ford has copied just about every major feature in the 4x4 F150 from GM? Torsion bar IFS suspension, no hub axle disconnect, shift on the fly. GM had these '88, Ford did not. 3) I won't comment on GM cars. I don't like most of them.
Remember when the '88 Chevy came out everybody said... "Thats too smooth for a truck" Well now look at the F150. And they are calling the '88-98 Chevys old design body. C/Ks are good looking trucks.
Consumer reports hates all American vehicles almost all the time. Consumer Reports is rated "worse than average"
On a lighter note, I think GM has stepped up to the plate in the last 10 years and with the new heavy duties going to be available with the indisputed best engines in the USA, 8.1 liter 340hp big block, 6.6L Duramax (Isuzu design) turbo diesel with 300hp, 525 ft-lbs torque, Allison 5-speed automatic. http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/2001.htm they are going to eat Ford up.
Blame the paint problem on environmentalists. Ford pickups peeled thru 1990. A local body shop even made templates to cover the windows cause he had a contract with Ford to repaint them.
They all have had teir problems. Hope they continue to improve.
No hard feelings Mike