# 7264: What's the best mid-sized, mid priced six cylinder SUV/4X4 for towing 18 ft. Ranger w150 hp? 3/11/02 10:55:00 PM -- Trailers and Towing

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SUBJECT: # 7264: What's the best mid-sized, mid priced six cylinder SUV/4X4 for towing 18 ft. Ranger w150 hp?

Submitted by Chaz (205.188.200.148) from NEW YORK on 3/11/2002 10:55:00 PM

Is it Toyota 4Runner,Nissan Pathfinder,Ford Explorer or other? What's your opinion, experience and patriotism not withstanding-we're just talking reliability and towing capacity.This vehicle will double as the wife operated family car, when not towing and no 8 cylinder gas-guzzler, super-sized behemoth!

3/11/2002 11:25:00 PM Submitted by RedAllison (152.163.194.203) from TENNESSEE says Chaz, sounds like you said TrailBlazer...
Check dis lil sweetie out. Itll pull the ears off that Ranger! And Ive yet to see any women that didnt love em.
Good luck, RA
3/12/2002 7:29:00 AM Submitted by BobH (66.44.54.134) from VIRGINIA says Suv
I have a 2002 Olds Bravada (same engine as the Trailblazer) and Red is right. The I-6 engine pulls my Ranger 482 without any problem. As far as driving without a trailer..it handles like a non-SUV automobile. The main difference between the Bravada and Trailblazer is some styling and choice of options. The Bravada costs more and comes standard with some Trailblazer options. It also comes with a 5 year-60,000 mile warranty. You could probably make some good deals now on either vehicle. The GMC Envoy is the third vehicle of this design.
3/12/2002 9:06:00 AM Submitted by Chad (216.124.136.4) from ILLINOIS says Which truck
The vehicals you mentioned will all pull well. The trailblazer that was mentioned is an awsome truck. Great styling and a hause of a 270 hp inline. Its basically has the power of most of the V8s. However its not great on fuel(not bad though). The more compact vehicals you mentioned will get slightly better mileage when not in tow but let me tell ya; when in tow those babies drink the gas. My little ford was good just driving around but hook it up to the boat and it sucked it down. I am like many and would just choose to go with the biggest I could get away with. Think price range and how much you will actually be towing and good hunting!!!
3/12/2002 12:07:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says The man said he wanted reliability.
The Trailblazer does indeed look good and has some impressive stats. It is also made by one of the least reliable truck makers in the business....one that has a reputation for using the buyer as a new product bug tester. Remember, this is the replacement for the Blazer and it was powerful but full of trouble for owners. One of the biggest disappointments with this brand new design vehicle is that GM neglected to make them very safe. They only got a MARGINAL rating from the insurance bureau for highway safety...I guess GM was hoping no one would notice that fact. I wouldn't purchase any vehicle that wasn't at least rated acceptable. Before anyone says who cares about safety, you should....42,000 died on the roads in the USA last year and hundreds of thousands were injured. If you indeed want to go this way, I would wait until the word is out on just how reliable they are....maybe in two years or so.
The most reliable rig in the list you gave Chaz is the 4Runner and they have more power now than they used to have. Their reliablity has been excellent by all accounts and they are rated well in collisions. They have some new features now that make them a worthy choice. The downside is that women have trouble getting into these rigs since they sit rather high. Have your wife try getting into it with a skirt on and you'll see what I mean. The Toyota Highlander is also a superb mid sized SUV but because it is a unibody design, would not be the best choice for towing your boat. Another good one is the Nissan Pathfinder....excellent power from their new engine but the crash tests were not great. The new Ford Explorer is probably the best all round in the mid-sze catagory. It boasts excellent towing power, has reasonable reliability and good safety rating. They also look good and since they are now wider and lower, much safer in an accident avoidance situation. Lastly, the Jeep Grand Cherokee is also in this class size but its' reputation for poor quality and reliability reduce its' appeal.
Good luck with which ever one you decide on. EE
3/12/2002 12:40:00 PM Submitted by Phill (136.200.212.33) from CALIFORNIA says Nissan Pathfinder
We looked at all of the above too and decided on the Nissan Pathfinder. That brand has improved alot last decade, lots of 200+k mile Pathfinders around. The 2001 motor has more hp than the 4runner (240 vs. 185), and much less expensive. Toyotas, obviously known for their reliability, are priced on their reputation and demand. I feel in some cases, they are overpriced. They always tend to be on the low side of the equation when it comes to adequate power too. If reliability is your No. one most important item, then of course, go with the Toyotas. But my decision was based on a mixture of power, reliability, price, and design. the optimum choice for us ended up with the Nissan. Haven't been disappointed yet. It's got great power and braking ability. The SE version, with stiffer springs, allows the SUV to feel like a sports car, hugs the road well, has the getup to blow by traffic when required, and stops on a dime.
Haven't towed the boat yet, but judging by the power, it should tow any bassboat with ease. Of course there is still no comparison with a V8 if you are on grades. Good luck whatever you decide.
3/12/2002 1:38:00 PM Submitted by RedAllison (152.163.201.46) from TENNESSEE says Brown Eye is at it again...
Do we REALLY give a red rats rusty arse WHAT your "insurance for the idiots agency" says? Brown drives a TOYbox deathtrap econobug, why take truck and towing advice from the "armchair" statistician? And Brown, Chaz also stated, MID SIZED! The Pathfinder and FourRunner are COMPACTS!!! They have the sack of neutered cats. The man is pulling his Ranger with it. NOT a dingy sailboat with a backpack full of granola, ricecakes and spring water and some silly moutain bike strapped to the roof (with the front wheel off of course!).
He also is putting his his wife in the vehicle. Do you really think those crackerboxes from the Orient (take your pick, FourRunner, Pathfinder, Rodeo etc...) are any match in a serious crash with American iron? Simple laws of physics at work here, NOT some sliderule nerd in a labcoat with some fake tests that have no absolute bearing on real world crash data! Based on your own belief Brown, you could strap yourself in your sardine can (scratch that, I mean sushi) that has such wonderful crash ratings from those labcoats you so elloquently wax about all the time, and walk away from a Tbone impact from my Z71 Tahoe!!!
Now shutup and go shovel the sidewalk, RA
3/12/2002 2:06:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Oh Redneck, you never cease to entertain with your gutter talk
The fact that Chaz is putting his wife and family in this vehicle is exactly why he needs to pay attention to safety. You will note that all the vehicles I mentioned are shown in the same MID-SIZED CATEGORY. Theirs weights and wheel bases are simular. See for yourself Chaz at:
http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ratings.htm
Signed Old Blue Eyes.
3/12/2002 2:17:00 PM Submitted by Chad (216.124.136.4) from ILLINOIS says pathfinder
some friends of mine have had 2 pathfinders: a 1994 and a 2000. From day one with each they had nothing but problems. Little things like lights, seatbelts, sun roof, power mirrors, and I believe the power locks. Also the stupid 4 wheel drive had some problems but I'm not sure what it was. These were new vehicals. Both were junk. But they felt foreign is better so they kept coming back for more. They have since traded for a toyota tundra and you wanna talk about consumers testing vehicals!! When this thing starts(its a 2001) is sounds like a troll hitting the engine block with a 50lb slege. $30,000 truck with less than 20,000 miles and it sounds like crap. My 2000 Z71 has had one problem(of course, I drive it like a 4X4 was meant to be driven!) and that was when I shucked the powersteering driving like an idiot in the snow(well, the field just jumped out in front of me!! ha)and my truck has 47,000 on it. Runs good. Whoever says chevy is not reliable needs to crawl out of their toyscrota or sissan and get into a real truck. I do have one complaint and thats the back windows on my extended cab are noisy in the wind. But you can't hear it cause of the straight pipes letting me know thats a real V8 under the hood. Just my opinions so don't get too worked up.
3/12/2002 2:21:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Also note Redneck....
I suggested the Ford Explorer was the best all round for his needs and the last time I looked, they are made in North America. But you choose to ignore that Red.....
Old Blue Eyes
3/12/2002 2:58:00 PM Submitted by Chaz (152.163.194.182) from NEW YORK says All replys appreciated !! Let's forget the USA vs. Imports rhetoric for now!!!
Thanx for all the input. I did NOT intend to raise the old USA versus Imports debate. I did, however, want to hear all opinions on pros/cons while considering all vehicles in the mid-sized class. V-8's were not a consideration for many reasons. With that in mind, any other responses are greatly appreciated.
3/12/2002 3:00:00 PM Submitted by Chad (216.124.136.4) from ILLINOIS says correction
The trailblazer is not the replacement for the blazer. Originally, there was the full-size blazer. Then chevy introduced the s-10 blazer. So at one time there was the blazer and the s-10 blazer. Then again change happened but it was only the name. The compact version kept the name blazer and the full-size was changed to Tahoe. The trailblazer is just new and is not replacing anything.
3/12/2002 5:17:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Chaz
You sound like an intelligent buyer, something that makes many manufacturers (and used car salesman) very concerned. The more we know about the various issues as buyers, the more the manufacturers will respond in kind with quality and safer vehicles.
For more input (without a lot of INDIVIDUAL bias), you might want to check out the April monthly issue of Consumers Reports. That specific issue deals exclusively with automobiles. They also publish an annual issue that only deals with trucks and SUV's....I think the 2002 issue is on the news stands now. There is some very good information in the articles and it will give you input on a number of factors, especially the reliability factor. Certain individuals that frequent this site shun CU and often make childish comments about it....likely because the truth hurts sometimes. However, this information, as well as safety sites like the one I already mentioned and web boards like www.edmunds.com can give you lots of input.
The rhetoric you mentioned in this thread was inevitable....there will always be those that equate imported vehicles with an economic system called communism, a lack of patriotism and so on. They can't beat it with better suggestions when faced with simple facts, so they attack either the vehicle, the manufacturer or the poster to try to sway your choice. I am used to that and have faith that people can see through it.
Anyway, the ultimate decision rests with you and your spouse and I sincerely hope it goes well for you no matter which one you decide on. All the best. EE
3/12/2002 11:32:00 PM Submitted by Reel Work from TEXAS says Chaz...
I agree with EE on the $runner (No, that wasn't a typo), Pathfinder and also with the Explorer. The only real downside is that the suspension on all of these are a little weak, but they will suffice as long as you dont get any heavier in the towing category. I also would recommend considering the T-Blazer last simply on the safety rating that falls short behind the $runner and the Explorer but the power is supposed to awesome on those new I-6 engines - what is more important? Safety is obviously a bigger concern for you since it is going to be hauling misses and the fam around on a daily basis as opposed to just you driving it to work and around town with passengers here and there...
Good luck, They are all great vehicles though...
Chris
Ever thought about maybe looking into an Expedition? They aren't much more than an explorer and they will have plenty of power... Just a thought...
3/13/2002 7:33:00 AM Submitted by john (66.134.134.9) from PENNSYLVANIA says tow vehicle
Have a Chevy TrailBlazer and love it. Tows a 19ft. Stratos with no problem. Gas mileage towing is in the 15+ range. Some have bashed the reliability of the Trail Blazer, I wonder if they had one and traded it or if they are going on someone elses opinion. If you look at the posts that come from the owners I don't think you'll see that much negative comments. The only thing I don't like on ours is the seast beat design. I'm a big guy, and when seated the belt comes over my shoulder in a manner that really irritates me, but I'll have to live with it.
3/13/2002 9:40:00 AM Submitted by Gil Plates (67.33.160.214) from GEORGIA says ...suggestion
..ya know what would be really cool???...what if it were written that ya can't post yer $0.02 here about a vehicle ( or boat, for that matter) that you don't now or haven't in the past owned...in that way only first hand knowledge would be spewed forth...NAH!!! ...whew, I AM a funny guy!!
3/13/2002 12:20:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Gil from GA
I do not need to own a Hummer to know that it is a great rig for off-roading. I do not need to own a LearJet to know they go very fast. I do not need to be a fireman to know it is a dangerous occupation to be in.
I do not need to own a TrailBlazer to know that it failed an independent crash test. I don't have to own a TrailBlazer to know that its' manufacturer has a reputation for producing vehicles that are not very reliable initially.
I do not have to be an auto engineer to be able to read statistics or understand their meaning. I do not have to be a used car salesman to be able to express a personal opinion to the man that asked a question looking for input on SUV's.
'ol Blue Eyes
3/13/2002 12:35:00 PM Submitted by Chad (216.124.136.4) from ILLINOIS says I do not have to...
I do not have to see you to know that you may just be telling a little fib. All the chevys I've known were very reliable, even the new ones. Give me an example of consumers testing chevrolet vehicals and the results
3/13/2002 1:10:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Oh come on Chad
All you have to do is read the posts on this site from various people to note the issues. And try reading independent reports, like Consumers Magazine or non-independent reports, like those from Edmunds. Consumers Magazine tests four vehicles every month and then the entire April issue is on vehicles. Pay special attention to the back section of the April issue where 400,000 individual members of CU rate their vehicles. That is a telling point on reliability, or lack thereof.
Plus from a personal standpoint, I owned three GM vehicles in a row and each one had serious problems....I am talking about transmissions replaced at 20,000, new steering racks peeling paint, and so on. This isn't anything new Chad, this crap has been going on for many years. More recent examples include the 2001 Buick LeSabre Ultra my father just bought....new brakes after just 25,000 (mostly highway) miles....that is absurd!! I got 120,000 out of my front brakes on my last Toyota Camry. I won't even get into all the wind noise and creaking sounds he also gets...of course, he doesn't hear them because he is rather hard of hearing but we sure notice it. Then there is the issue of paint peeling from the top of his rear bumper. Lots of power from that V-6 though. Darn well should be powerful too, it cost $44,000 up here.
Now Chad, I know there are lots of reliable Chevys out there, otherwise GM wouldn't still be in business. But if you look at the stats, it shows all isn't well in motown and they are far behind the current position of other makers, especially the Japanese imports.
Now lastly Chad, I take exception to your inference that I am "fibbing" about the issue of Chevy reliability. I may not live in your country or go to your church Chad but I do have principals and standards. If you follow the strings you would see that I my message is straightforward and supported by third party sources, most of which are about as independent as one can get in this prejudiced world we live in. In the end, a person makes their own decisions about what road to follow, I just do my best to insure people make the decision of which way to go based on informed knowledge, not emotion and certainly not "razzle-dazzle" curb appeal.
3/13/2002 2:09:00 PM Submitted by Chad (216.124.136.4) from ILLINOIS says ?
That was beautifully written. Applause, applause... Now buy a chevy and you'll live longer.
3/13/2002 3:36:00 PM Submitted by Gil Plates (67.33.160.214) from GEORGIA says Eagle-eye...
...read your diatribe...lot's of things about what you're not..but I have a strong feeling that all of us know what are..
3/13/2002 4:34:00 PM Submitted by Gil Plates (67.33.160.214) from GEORGIA says retraction to EE
...sorry..I wuz havin' a bad day..you're entitled to give your opinion 'bout whatever you want...the point I really wanted to make above is that when someone asks for info here I believe that information should be based on personal experiences and not interpretations of others interpretations i.e. magazine articles ,,reports etc...wouldn't you agree that would be the most useful info to distribute??
3/13/2002 5:16:00 PM Submitted by tritonfisher (205.185.216.23) from GEORGIA says red and eagle
Red Allison and Eagle Eye both need to grow up and stop the constant bickering. It was cute at first, but gets old really quick. I feel sorry for the folks that ask legitimate questions on this site, and end up with nothing but a pissing contest. Eagle Eye should be getting paid by the comsumer mags, and I sure hope Red is getting checks from Chevrolet. Best comment so far is from GilPlates. Answers to posts should be on personal experiences, not opinions. Chaz, sorry you got no real answers to your question. Best advice I could give is to do some research, then go with the wife and test drive. I also have an eighteen foot boat with a 150, and a six cyl. pulls it fine. I think everyone will agree that eight cyls. are the way to go for towing, but not all of us can afford a vehicle that is only used to pull the boat.
3/13/2002 5:20:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Well Gil
The internet provides us with a whole lot more information that we ever had before. Remember that even though you may not find something useful, to some it may be very important. I believe that no matter if the knowledge is based on ones personal experience with a specific truck, or is mearly a reference to a series of problems one reads about, it is still useful information. The individual reader decides what to use and what to discard. Many people don't realize that the info is out there. Others would rather you not know about some information for their own reasons. I guess also that by restricting posters as you suggest, it would be a form of sensorship. I hope you believe in the right to freedom of expression Gil.
3/13/2002 5:41:00 PM Submitted by Gil Plates (67.33.154.156) from GEORGIA says ..hmmmmmm
...not sensorship or censureship...what I believe is what I stated above..if'n ya ain't been there, done that AND got a t-shirt..you just don't understand it....big difference between knowing sumpin' and understanding it...a very wise man once told me..what I hear I forget, what I see I remember, but what I do ....I understand. I shant say another werd on dis subject...you can have the last werd!!
3/13/2002 6:48:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Hey Gill....I am not saying your wrong, but
I don't believe that one person's individual experiences with a vehicle means a whole lot in the greater scheme of things. It is just that....one opinion and one experience amongst millions of others. I do believe that a scientifically gathered, broad based group of thousands of opinions has considerable credibility. That is why I make reference to such publications such as Consumers Reports. It does not guarantee you get a good vehicle, but it does show a trend for the likelihood of success or failure.
I also believe that a properly conducted scientific crash testing by a professional independent test facility does provide a valid comparison between like models. That is why I support the work of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and why I mention their findings in my posts. But it still comes down to each person making their own decision.
3/13/2002 8:38:00 PM Submitted by Chaz (205.188.195.190) from NEW YORK says Thanx for taking the time to respond to my post..It's helped,& God Bless you All
no msg
3/13/2002 9:16:00 PM Submitted by Reel Work from TEXAS says I have one thing to respond to.... Just my .02 (Opinion)
Triton posted above that I felt needed a reply...
This site and the questions asked here are for the person posting the original message to do with what they want regardless of where the post twists and turns to, as this one has. To say that replies should just be factual as triton put it is pure crap and is not what this board and the people who frequent it are about. Yes, people come here looking for facts but I would have to say that mostly they are wanting our opinions, good and bad...
For example, Red thinks Chevies are great and many people will side with him on that and EE thinks Toyotas are great and many people would also side with him there. Are they wrong, NO! That having been said all vehicles have some shape or form of quality issues and problems that are inherent to that vehicle or the manufacturer but that doesn't mean you don't like it or won't like it... I don't like some things about a vehicle that others might like... That like it or not stems to almost anything posted here but the person is getting the best, well-rounded and non-biased opinion from a very broad perspective which may shed new light on an issue that the person did not consider before deciding to post... Why do you think that there are cars for every type of person and purpose...
So what happened to the original poster? Well, they formed an overall opinion from all the posts, good and bad, factual and opinionated and anything else I left out but they in turn became much more educated on whatever it was that they were needing info about... And sometimes, they see the rude side of people showing their true colors and opinions that should have been kept to themselves.. Do I fall into this category by this post? Some would say yes, some would say no...
Chris
A little thought before posting goes a long way.... That's my opinion, it is a fact that it is my opinion and it is a fact that you will have an opinion on my opinion... Duh!
3/14/2002 7:36:00 AM Submitted by jim (65.120.97.175) from PENNSYLVANIA says somewhere in between is the answer
The honest to god truth is GM is somewhere in between what Eagle Eye says and the person who says GM is best. If GM was as bad as EE says they would not be the largest manufacturer of vehicles in the world. If toyota built automobiles as good as EE says they would be the largest manufacturer of automobiles in the world. I own a dodge(according to EE the worst piece of shi* ever built) I will buy another one whenever this one wears out. I care little about crash tests. I would much rather be sitting in my 2500 dodge diesel(with a poor crash test rating) than in a toyota (or any car or minivan with a 5 star rating) any day. You can't compare apples to apples with crash tests unless everyone owned the same size vehicle. In general, the biggest and heaviest wins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3/14/2002 11:26:00 AM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says No Jim, the Lada and the Skoda are tied for the worst....
I never said the Dodge was a piece of crap....those are your words. I wouldn't buy one after a bad car experience with Chrysler, but that is my perogative.
Contrary to your point, a Toyota is not the best freakin' vehicle in the world, but it certainly is much more reliable that the GM line up. The stats, even those of non-independent sources, support their higher level of reliability.
As for Toyota's corporate size, when you sell into the biggest market in the world, growth is inevitable if your product is suitable. GM has been at it for about 100 years. Toyota only entered the USA market about 40 years ago and has only been in business for about 60. Toyota is growing at a steady pace (now approaching 10% of the US market share) and GM continues to lose market share in the US (now at 28% vs over 50% 15 years ago). At this rate, it is just a matter of time before GM may end up in second or even third, behind Ford. However, with the close ties that GM and Toyota now have (they build vehicles together, such as the Vibe and Matrix and do technology development work together), I wouldn't be surprised if they someday merge. That would be very bad news for the consumer but mergers are the way of things today.
As for you not caring about your safety, that is a sad reality. Whatever, that is your decision. And yes, you are right, simple physics does apply in crashes...bigger is better (no matter what some women say) :o) However, if you are going to be in a crash, would you rather be in a vehicle that fails a basic offset 40 mph crash or one that passed? Obviously, the safer a vehicle is, the better chance you have of getting out of it alive and intact.
Anyway, like I said before, the input is all opinions. Some are subjective, some objective, and some are a bit of both. Frankly, I am glad we have some choices. Otherwise, we could all be driving (or more often pushing) Ladas.
EE
Hey Reel Work: Another superb post from you. You are a very intelligent man. Did you decide where you are headed for your vacation? If you are coming north, you better get at it and make your reservations. They are saying that millions upon millions of Americans are heading here this year thanks to the very favorable exchange rate and the fact that it is very safe here. Remember, when you see a price for a room or whatever up here, you only end up paying about 60% of that amount in USD, thanks to the exchange rate. All the best.
3/14/2002 12:28:00 PM Submitted by Reel Work from TEXAS says Ee..
Well, we ended up, make that I ended up paying for a Cruise for the Western Carib... We'll leave out of New Orleans and then sail to Montego Bay, then to Grand Cayman, Cozumel and Playa del Carmen before heading back to N.O. I got us the one week package and got the second to the nicest room including full balcony with an upgrade option that means if there is a top notch room available that has not been booked, I get it and then the people below me get mine and so on... I'm excited, already bought a digital camera and bought a waterproof case that will see many years of use on the lake but will come in really handy in the clear waters on the cruise... Can't wait, I've been on a cruise and the wife to be is scared about sea-sickness.. All I can do is laugh and tell her she has no idea how big this thing is gonna be and how it has hydraulic compensators for the swells even if it is rough...
I want to take my big offshore rod and... Well, you get the point, balcony - a case of beer, need I say more! LOL I can see it now, me being escorted off the ship for fishing off the balcony...
Chris
3/14/2002 1:27:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says That sounds great
We almost booked a simular trip out of Miami last week but the airfare to get there was more money than the cruise! So, we are off to Vancouver Island instead.....got it all booked and my fishing gear is cleaned and ready. Tell your other half to take motion sickness pills along and pop half a pill regularly. That is what my wife had to do on our Alaska cruise, but it worked. We really enjoy cruising, the best darn way to have a holiday in my books. Have a great time! How did you make out on your exams? Are you being transferred soon?
Our soldiers from the PPCLI are over in Kandahar right now and are in the thick of it, conducting Operation Harpoon. From the bit of info we are getting so far, it sounds like a continuation of Operation Anaconda. I was surprised to here that 100 US mountain soldiers are there with them under the Canadian Colonel's leadership. We also supplied 16 snipers to operation Anaconda last week and it was reported yesterday that they terminated a considerable number of terrorists that were behind mortars and machine guns with well placed 30 cal slugs. Boy, I would give to my left nut to be over there right now zapping those creaps. I used to love that $hit when I was in the Reserves. I should have gone in full time years ago but I didn't. Oh well.
Anyway, take care Reel and have a great time on your honeymoon. EE
3/14/2002 7:51:00 PM Submitted by jim (65.120.97.247) from PENNSYLVANIA says Ee
EE, where did I say I didn't care about my safety? I said I would rather be in my 3/4 ton than a 1/2 ton toyota (or anything). That tells me I care alot about my safety. You say you would not buy a chrysler because of a bad experience. So if you bought a toyota tundra and happened to get a lemon you would not buy another toyota? It should go both ways. Frankly if a 3/4 ton dodge diesel and a toyota tundra are the same price, why does anyone buy a toyota. Mine will far outlast a toyota. No doubt about it. Not a brand war thing merely a fact. A cummins diesel will outlast a toyota gasser. Yea I might have to replace a tranny or two after 300,000 miles but you can't have 440 lb ft of torque without a down side.
3/15/2002 9:45:00 AM Submitted by Winter Wonderland (141.158.20.2) from MASSACHUSETTS says Boys , Boys Relax.
First of all on the price issue you can get a 4 Runner Base model for the same price as a similary equiped T-Blazer so drop the $Runner comments. Thats right under 24k. The base model comes standard with a/c, auto,v6, 4WD, cd/tape radio, power doors and windows, tonneu cover for the cargo space, prerigged for trailer and rear heat. Yes if you get a Limited model they are a fotune. As far as towing yes the 4Runner is a little underpowered, if your not towing in a hilly area you'll be fine towing the Ranger. Here in New England you definately notice on the bigger hills. (I tow an 18.6 Champion with mine.) As far as reliabilty GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!! The T-Blazer has been out what a year? How do you know if it is reliable or not?? I guess that major recall on the suspension doesnt mean anything to you guys??? Rule of thumb never buy a brand new design of a car model in its first year of production, because there are almost always unforseen problems. In regards to the Pathfinder I'm not sure where they get their horsepower/torque numbers cause its sure doesnt seem like it puts out 60 more hp than the Toyota, at least while towing. I am biased towards the the 4 Runner because I have had 2 of them and had great luck, but that doesnt mean I think its the ultimate vehicle (its close for what I need). In closing emotional ranting does no good in helping Chaz it just wastes his and everyone elses time. Chaz I say forget the suv bite the bullet and buy a loaded extended cab z71 with the 5.3. (thats right Toyota Boy loves an American Pickup!! The engine on that truck is awesome, I didnt even know my boat was back there)
3/15/2002 11:31:00 AM Submitted by Chad (216.124.136.4) from ILLINOIS says true
I have a 2000 Z71 and it romps!! Its got a S$it*oa$ of power and pulls great; much better than my dads older model with the 5.7 liter. Get a black one, ext. cab. Bad truck.
3/15/2002 7:58:00 PM Submitted by tritonfisher (67.216.57.93) from GEORGIA says Reply to reel work
I Just re-read my reply to make sure I didn't type something by mistake. Nope I didn't. Reel, I never said replys should be just factual. Simply that they should be based on ones own experiences with a product rather than an opinion of a product that an individual has no first hand knowledge of. Thanks for the bashing though.
3/15/2002 9:10:00 PM Submitted by Reel Work from TEXAS says Triton...
I don't think I was misinterpreting there... You stated in your original post that "Answers to posts should be on personal experiences, not opinions" Well, in the context that you put it, that would mean that personal experiences are factual...
If it's "based on ones own experiences" or "personal experiences" wouldn't that be a fact and an opinion??? Granted it is a an opinion based on the fact that you have firsthand knowledge..... You might think, based on your exerience, a station wagon handles great but I might think a go cart, based on my experience handles great.. Are we wrong? No... but it is most definitely our opinion...
Oh, we could on and on... LOL
Sorry if you took it that I was bashing you, just calling it like I see it.. No disrespect intended...
Take care and god bless,
Chris
3/15/2002 10:01:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Sad
I was reading the post from 'Winter Wonderland' and agreeing with what I saw....then, I got to the line where he goes and spoils it by suggesting that Chaz buy a Silverado Z-71!!! Oh man....that is the biggest let down I have ever come across on this site! Of course the Z-71 pulls a boat well, so do all the other V-8 pickups!!! But really WW, Chaz said no V-8's and he said he wanted an SUV. He even gave a list of the prospects....I didn't see a pickup truck in his list. Sure enjoyed seeing your feedback on the 4Runner though. We are seriously thinking of getting one (or the Highlander) and your comments mirrored those of other sources. By the way, did the models you had have the 3.4L or the old 3L? Oh and your comment about the Pathfinder HP is right on. It does produce 250Hp but that is at 6000 RPM. The 4Runner does 185Hp at 3400 RPM. The story is the same with the new I-6 in the TrailBlazer...270Hp, but at 6000 RPM.
Oh and Chad, your beloved Silverado went from being below average reliability last year to much below average this year. Many owners also said in the survey that they wouldn't buy it again.
3/16/2002 7:35:00 PM Submitted by Winter Wonderland (207.172.11.232) from MASSACHUSETTS says Sense of Humour!!!
The comment about Chaz buying a Z71 was somewhat in jest, I know he wants an SUV. I should have added a disclamer I have not owned a Z71 I have however towed my boat on a couple of occasions with 2 different 2000 Z71's and I was imppressed with the ride and the layout (extended cabs). I cant comment on reliabilty as they are friends trucks and I have only their word to go by. I have had one of each as far as the 4Runners go, the first had the 3.0 and my current 99 has the 3.4. They are like night and day, much more tourque with the 3.4 and the gas mileage is actually the same. I have had great luck with the 4runners so far, whats not to like?? For me they have run forever with minimal maintence (if you can get 220k miles out of an suv only doing oilchanges, tune-ups and brakes, thats pretty good)I'm considering a Sequoia next, but I may wait as their is a new 4 runner in the works as we speak(a v8 may be in the 4 runners future).
3/16/2002 9:13:00 PM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Ww
I am glad to see that your post was in jest....it just didn't fit! Yes, I have heard good things about the 3.4L although the negative comments often mentioned about 4Runner's lack of power comes from the old 3L model. With the new 4 wheel drive system and anti-skid technology, the 4Runner is a good choice for those looking for a safe mid sized SUV. I haven't seen any info on what the new 2003 will be like but did hear it will be available with the awesome 4.7L V-8. I'll bet that model will be pricy too!
What you said about the Silverado is exactly right. They have a lot going for them without a doubt...the problem is clearly one of reliability. In fact, the just released CU auto issue states that it is a very competent truck and they would recommend it but can't! That is because of all the on-going problems it has, it is rated much worse than average. Even after three years since its' 99 model year makeover, it is still causing a lot of grief for buyers. I should point out that the CU evaluation on the new TrailBlazer wasn't very glowing either. The CU auto engineering committee comments are as follows:
"The Trailblazer accelerates enthusiastically and offers a compliant, if slightly jiggly, ride. Its handling, however, is ungainly, with excessive body lean and slow steering. Stability control might help tame the twitchy rear end, but it isn't offered. Braking is unimpressive. The TB's interior is mostly quiet, but wind noise is pronounced. Front seat comfort is only mediocre, and the seat mounted front safety belts are a nusiance."
This report, along with the fact that it is rated marginal in an offset crash and doesn't even come with selt belt pretensioners (which is a pretty standard safety device these days), doesn't inspire much confidence in this new product. With GM's history of having lots of initial problems in new releases, this is one to wait on for a few years at least. Speaking of GM, the only Chevy product that got the recommended nod this year is the old Chevy Impala..it is actually above average in reliability and owner satisfaction rating is also above average. So there you go, they do know how to get it right....sometimes.
I should point out as well that CU got 500,000 responses for the 2001 customer survey this time around. So anyone that has doubts about the accuracy and validity of the customer product rating is just fooling themselves. My favorite ride Toyota recorded just 12 problems per 100 2001 model vehicles sold. That is a tie for first place with Subaru. Chrysler was the best American label with 22 problems per 100 and GM was next with 23. Ford has slipped big time this year with 26 per 100. The F-150 is still rated well though, right behind the industry leader Toyota Tundra.
To all you doubtors out there: Go buy and copy of the CU April Auto Issue and see for yourself. It might open your eyes....once you read what they say and how the decisions are made about rating and such, you'll see that it is fair and about as accurate an assessment as you are likely to get. It certainly is a lot more credible than the opinion from one or two individuals like you see on this web site.
3/16/2002 10:21:00 PM Submitted by jim (65.120.98.172) from PENNSYLVANIA says what is CU?
eom
3/17/2002 11:58:00 AM Submitted by Eagle Eye (66.222.138.53) from Canada says Sorry Jim
I guess I should have been more clear. CU is Consumers Union, which is a non-profit consumer group based in the USA. They have over 4 million members. CU publishs a monthly consumer help magazine called Consumer Reports, which is one of the most widely read publications in the world. Each April, the magazine is devoted entirely to autos. Every month, four vehicles in a given class are evaluated. They accept no advertising or free goods of any kind so the opinions expressed by their engineers are about as unbiased as one will find. All products tested are bought at retial outlets without the seller knowing that the buyer is CU. Comments made about products are done by a group of experts, not one individual. They each test a vehicle for days then together, make an informed assessment. In addition to the CU engineer comments, they seek input from actual vehicle owners. CU sends out the annual surveys to each of their 4 million members every fall to assess the individuals experiences with various products, mainly autos but also things like lawnmowers, TV's and so on. About 10% of the surveys are returned to CU for tabulation, this year over 500,000 came in. This results in quantative and tangiable results and trends in quality are easy to see. It allows readers to see what others have experienced with autos and shows definate trends in reliability and quality. By the same token, if insufficient responses are obtained on a given model to draw a conclusion, no reliability results are given.
I hope this explains it better.
3/17/2002 4:22:00 PM Submitted by jim (65.120.100.7) from PENNSYLVANIA says I thought so
I thought you were talking about CR but just wanted to make sure.
3/18/2002 10:58:00 AM Submitted by Lee from TEXAS says Ok Ok CU does some good but . . .
EE, et al. CU does some good research and provide their opinions for us to use. However, I bought a Pontiac 6000 based upon their recommendation when I was returning to the States from Germany. Loved the car but it was the biggest Lemon ever. Insurance co (USAA) footed $2K bill to rewire it as garage indicated that it was a definite firetrap. Sometime their poop is good but at times it's a SWAG. Don't want to start more drival but when CU rates the Tundra as the best full size pickup truck, their engineers/editors just don't get down on the farm/construction site/etc. Toys are making progress but still a ways to go for a work vehicle. Regards, Lee