Bass Fishing Home Page: Striped Bass

SUBJECT: Big Fish Kill

Submitted by Tony Hughes (4.245.35.105) from OKLAHOMA on 11/15/2004 6:17:00 PM

As a reformed Striped Bass tournament competitor and current trophy striper fisherman, I have to ask the question, what good reason do you have to kill a trophy fish? Striped Bass over thirty pounds take 12 to 15 years to get that big. Removing these fish from freshwater lakes and rivers diminishes the likelyhood that there will be ANY trophy freshwater striper fishing grounds unless these fish are released at boatside. Thats what a camera and tape measure are for, Catch/Photo/Conserve/Release. There are too many big fish caught and killed only for a skin mount on the wall or a prize payout. Fiberglass replicas and an accurate scale plus a picture will conserve these fish for all of us. We released 4 fish last week in Tennessee that were 30 pounds and one at 44#. Too bad that some marketing organizations are promoting a once a year fest that see fish over 30# killed for a prize. Respect for a trophy fishery requires that EVERYONE becomes responsible and thoughtful when fishing such areas, to do less will mean such fisheries will cease to be as productive as they once were. This has already occurred on the upper Cumberland by guide services removing these fish for clients skin mounts, and continues to happen all for braggin rights on the den or office wall. You can't replace this resource quickly if you do remove them. Please consider this the next time you have that fish of a lifetime at the boat.

11/15/2004 8:20:00 PM GeauxFish (68.158.214.232) says Interesting Coming From You?
Tony, I can still remember my son and I meeting you at a gas station the evening before a big tournament on Hartwell a couple of years ago. You seemed sort of irritated that after inviting my son to check out your boat, that he discovered the 20+lb fish iced down in your cooler. I told him later that I was shocked to see you with the fish because #1 ALWAYS preached "catch and release". You were quite the tourney fisherman then. In fact, I remember that you "won" that tournament the next day. Now, since then, the NSBA has done a great job promoting the use of the striper tube. I personally like the idea of having a one fish per day tournaments (as will be this years National Tournament). I also like the fact that when there is a dead fish at the scales, there is always a needy person there that wants the fish for their family's meal. I definitely feel like your trying to take jabs at the NSBA whenever you can and it's really starting to be annoying. The NSBA isn't perfect but they seem to be headed in the right direction. They've come along way since the early days when it was SO hard to keep em alive and half-dead and half-frozen fish were brought to the scales.
GeauxFish
11/15/2004 8:47:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.245.39.11) says You know you're right
Striper tubes may keep 20# fish alive for a weigh in. I have killed way more than my share of big striped bass in the past. I choose not to participate in national tournaments any longer due to the fact that a tube has yet to be devised that substitutes for release at boatside in the cool water months. If it were not for the need for promotion of big fish at the weigh in to attract the crowds, a tournament trail could be run in the cooler months with a video camera, a scale, and a release at boatside. This would eliminate the necessity of bringing trophy fish in to a weigh site to be handled too many times and eliminate the majority of the stress placed on these fish. As I am on the water for 300 days in the year, I see the mentality of hanging that skin mount and depleting a resource to the point that few trophy fish are left from what used to be prime water.(the Cumberland river as example) Its not just a tournament problem, its an attitude adjustment that needs to be considered by all who fish in trophy waters for Striped Bass. I have yet to mount a big fish (I consider big to be over 40#) on my wall, but I have many pictures of many 40# fish swimming away from my boat. Fishing and tying for Angler of the Year team in the inagural year of the NSBA was fun, but yea we killed our share, the difference was that those fish went to feed needy groups. My particular boat did and does not have room for the batteries, space, and weight to be carried with the Striper tube design, and the fish in that particular tournament mentioned were before the tube use was really promoted. Not that I would have used one anyway. My jabs are directed to PROMOTE CATCH AND RELEASE, I applaud the NSBA's efforts to do so, but they still have a long way to go in my book.
11/15/2004 10:15:00 PM fishingnutt (69.134.59.40) says who cares ??
Mr. Hughes nobody cares what you think!! All you're trying to do is start up some sort of issue with the NSBA. If you have a problem with the NSBA then call them and settle it once and for all please!!!!
11/16/2004 7:44:00 AM Crow (166.82.59.236) says Striped Bass
Thanks Tony for writing, there always has to be a mean spirited person: it is easy to be critical! You cannot undo the past, but you can change the future! Thanks for becoming a good example to all striped bass fishermnen! Thanks, Crow
11/16/2004 10:18:00 AM Hooked (68.223.89.174) says Can of Worms
Crow, I agree with you that Tony has made some very good contributions in the past and I'm sure he continues to have a wealth of knowledge that he could share with the rest of us. I used to always make a point of reading Tony's posts because they were so informative. Now they appear to be too full of rhetoric from his soapbox!
But I also agree with Fishingnutt that an open public forum such as this board is not the place to continually air your PERSONAL issues an individual or organization. The NSBA has a telephone number and a mailing address. I have read between the lines of Geauxfish's post and I'm sure that Tony would prefer that such an exposure NOT be aired in such a public manner because it IS damaging to his credibility. I have no reason to doubt Geauxfish's post. I would have had my concerns as well! Why in the world would you be have a fish that size in your boat on the evening before a tournament? DUH!
That said, I'm sure the NSBA feels the same way regarding Tony's repeated posts.
I'm sure Tony must realize now that if he takes open forum shots at the credibility of others....he is opening himself up for others to take shots at his credibility.
11/16/2004 10:59:00 AM Tony Hughes (4.244.84.94) says Which I don't mind
Take your shots, I can duck, but note what I said " I applaud NSBA efforts to conserve, but it still has a long way to go." It takes a long time to grow fish over 40#. Its really not about NSBA on this one, but bragging that the biggest weigh in in the history of the organization (on a public fishing forum for marketing purposes )at the expense of the pressure that will now be brought to bear on a small lake with a limited number of big fish, is likely to deplete ANOTHER potential trophy spot. You are fortunate that Russell may be designated as a "trophy" fishery, that has yet to happen west of the Mississippi.
11/16/2004 11:18:00 AM Tony Hughes (4.244.84.94) says Geauxfish
That fish which was iced down was one of about 15 we caught and released prefishing the tournament. If I remember correctly it weighed 19# and was gut hooked with little chance for release. Not real sure what you may have thought I was irritated at kids come first in my book. That fish was cleaned the same night. During the tournament we weighed in a 20# and 27#(we also caught 5 more that day which were released) fish and took a lie detector test to certify the win from Striper Kings. All of the fish caught in that particular tournament were sent to a local Anderson S.C. charity, the lone exception being a 24# fish which was released by Chris McConahy that was kept 10 hours in a tube. Any of the fish caught in that tournament "could" have been kept alive as the water temps were in the low fifties.
11/16/2004 11:55:00 AM Nothin but Fish (207.59.211.194) says trophy fish
Tony,
Let's see you run a guide business fishing 300 days a year for "trophy" fish for which your customers pay you over $250 for a 1/2 day trip....when a paying customer catches a 30# fish you are telling me that these are always released??? So you run a guide service specializing in 100% catch and release trophy fish? I think we all know the answer to this.....
You did take another of your shots at the NSBA contraire to your claim....I have been involved with the NSBA since it's inception and no it is not perfect and yes it has had some challenges....but it is striving in the right direction and is giving back to the striped bass fishery in many ways. Some of the support is direct and some is indirect...I know because I have pictures of the state DNR's and US Fish and Wildlife receiving checks. With budgets being cut left and right the NSBA and other support groups is a must to keep our fishery in top notch condition. I do believe your heart is in the right place in wanting trophy fish to survive just as the NSBA's is but constantly taking shots at the NSBA and its officers on a public forum accomplishes nothing. Let me put it a different way....if your neighbor plays loud music at night do you call him and ask him to please turn it down some as a compromise or do you post a sign at the front of the neighborhood while calling everyone that will listen and the police to boot.
My note is not meant to be personal against you but I and every other NSBA member sense your animosity toward the NSBA. If you have ideas that you believe make sense pick up the phone and call Warren or Bill and lay em on the table. We all do truely want the best for striped bass and the NSBA.
Thanks for the consideration!!!!
Tight lines...Bill Carson...<")))>< 678.287.1919
11/16/2004 12:22:00 PM Hooked (68.223.89.174) says Viagra Fish
Seems I do remember that the smaller of the two fish brought to the scales by the winning team at that Hartwell Tourny was rather stiff. It had either been on ice for quite a while, or it had been given twice the recommended Viagra dose for a striper that size.
11/16/2004 12:46:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.244.84.94) says Look at it this way Bill
I have no gripes with promoting tournaments on lakes big enough to support such events. Hamilton was an exception. It has long been known as a trophy fish destination in this part of the country, now it is known nationally, and it will NOT be able to support the pressure it is already getting. Lanier where you fish MAY be able to support the tremendous pressure it gets BUT it could kick out numbers of fish in the 40-50# class were it managed that way.
Well you would have to come get in my boat sometimes and watch the big fish leave but no you obviously don't know the answer to that question. Fishing to kill trophy class fish is NOT done in my boat, I can tell you in the last 3 years we have killed one over 40(for sure) which could not be revived, my clients in that part of the country have it pounded in to turn em loose, they are rare fish and getting rarer, you have the best Striped Bass fishing in the country within a 3 hour drive, it is not going to stay that way unless they are put back to grow,when it is possible to do so. I have turned down magazine producers and fishing celebs when asked to take them places where the big fish are, the resource is that fragile. Getting on every fishing website with headlines about big fish weigh ins has the potential for wiping out some trophy waters. My only concern. Don't have to agree and my opinion is just that.
11/16/2004 2:18:00 PM Nothin but Fish (207.59.211.194) says Knowing there there don't mean you can catch em
Tony,
Just becuse folks know there there don't mean everyone can catch em. I've set loose a few "big un's" myself in hopes of them gettin bigger. Your point is well taken but I really believe that with more members we can get more sponsors and more money and more support and more to give back to the fishery. You and I can both help and benefit with the NSBA's growth. Mom, Dad and the kids can ALL fish in an NSBA Tournament...that ain't true for other species specific trails. My teenage son likes to fish and I encourage him to do so...that keeps him away from other undesirable opportunities.
If you'd like to discuss or debate this more in depth feel free to contact me at my office...678.287.1919. I'll be happy to speak with you in person. Regards!
Tight lines...Bill Carson...<")))><
11/16/2004 4:00:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.244.84.48) says Unfortunately I got a long memory
First off I have absolutely no animus against any members of the NSBA with the exception of Warren Turner and Bill Haire. Fishing tournaments was/is enjoyable, more power to anyone who wishes to do so. The reasons for that remain a private matter BUT I intend to hold the Directors feet to the fire now and into the future. Originally there were to be no sanctioning of warm water tournaments, the lure of putting a cash price on Striper stocks changed that. I thought the aim really was conservation and got on board with the concept to promote that. I saw too many instances of poorly managed weigh -ins, course some of that has been addressed. I see too danged many big fish killed at weigh -ins, the NSBA is not entirely at fault here, but they have put a price on trophy fish. Six fish over 29# brought to the scales and then bragging about being a conservation group strikes me as a little false. Were any of those fish returned to fight another day? I only hope so, but think not. The fish which fill in the biomass of the removed fish in the Hamilton tournament probably won't reach 35-40# in my lifetime, sure there are other fish in there as big or bigger, but what are they worth? The attitude which prevails today is going to diminish big fish and lower the bar to lots of medium to small fish. Tennessee has seen the value of its striped bass stocks by a 2 fish/day limit. Even at that the Premier Striped Bass waters in that state are not what they were 10 years ago. Two of the best known trophy guides in the state will attest to that, and will even admit they have been their own worst enemies where removing big fish in the past were concerned. I implore the NSBA to find other ways to run their tournaments with an eye toward protecting not exploiting big fish for commercial gain. Keeping striper in a tube for a weigh-in may be a little baby step, but 1 fish limit tournaments assures that trophy fish will be killed. The skill it takes to catch more than 1 fish is a much better indicator of who the best fisherman may be on any given day. I would rather see the tournaments geared toward a slot creel and a heavy string than to see fish over 40" removed.
11/16/2004 8:05:00 PM Mike Rhoads (68.158.153.117) says Is someone missing the point
Hey Tony, how ya doing, Fighting about bluebacks on Tims Ford seems to be a long time ago now, don't remember Bill being there, I do remember someone saying bring all you want, Ya right, I also remember a man stepping up and taking people to Nickajack to catch bait. Remember Tony, who was that Man? Nobody, Nobody needs to talk to you about the NSBAs inception. Maybe a small format change is in order here, would a slot work? Maybe take away the cell phones, and the radios. See ya back in Tennessee someday. Mike
11/16/2004 8:26:00 PM gbart (209.86.140.37) says Tony -- let me refresh your memory
First I have been reading this board for a long time and never responded. I just want to be sure the truth is being stated. I need to correct you and GeauxFish. I was with GeauxFish and his son when we met at the Gas Station that evening before the Hartwell Tournament. Both of you are wrong because "you" showed us "2" striped bass that were on ice in your boat " because you held them up and showed both of them to us". You also said that you had caught them the day before in the Coosa River, and bragged about how your were the expert in the Coosa River and needed a boat like the one you had to get to them. I'm not accusing anyone of anything just stating the facts. You had no problem showing off fish that you had caught. PS:If you have personal issues with people-- keep it private.
11/16/2004 8:51:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Working together works
May 2004: The NSBA donated $1,250 to the Georgia striped bass fishery through the Coosa Basin Striper Club (CBSC) by matching their wildlife project contribution to the Georgia Department of Natural Resources (GADNR) conservation project to purchase and install forth (40) water quality monitoring stations up the Coosa River which is Georgia�s natural reproducing striped bass fishery and the source of the vast majority of the brood stock used to stock all of Georgia�s striped bass and hybrid striped bass fishery With out donation's like this were would OUR sport be. I'm proud to be a coosa river member and and NSBA member. Because of projects like this. It's is amazing what we can do when we work together.
11/16/2004 10:23:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says I to have a long memory
Tony Witch is it catch and release or big fish tournaments ? Here a Quote
SUBJECT: Need fishing partners willing to
Submitted by Tony H. (65.64.75.113) from OKLAHOMA on 8/12/03 8:51:00 PM
Start up a new publication which would cover Striper/Hybrid/White Bass fishing all over the continental US. This would be primarily directed to fishing-not tournaments or tournament trails more where and how to information. In support of this publication would be a Nationwide March 1 to Labor Day tournament with 6 divisions and unlimited bodies of water to fish in. Membership into the tournament would be 35.00 per year including the REAL BASS magazine. In addition we would be considering hosting 4 open tournaments in various areas of the US between the months of October to December with a championship to kick off the New year each year (March 15th). Interested parties can contact me at thughes55@sbcglobal.net.
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8/13/03 9:25:00 AM Milkman (69.40.35.32) says New Trail I believe I will continue to support and fish the NSBA Trail. However I hope your new venture does well. Sam L
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8/13/03 9:33:00 AM Tom Bare (65.41.176.146) says I'd be interested in hearing more about it Send me some info on what's cookin' inside that head of yours. TB.
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8/13/03 1:04:00 PM Tony Hughes (64.123.145.91) says Not really a trail Sam This would be a big fish TOURNAMENT which would run from March 1 and end September 3. It would be a National Freshwater Tournament no restrictions on which lakes or rivers you fish. States would be grouped by divisions with prizes/cash payouts from each division, with grand prizes in each division and cash payouts to 10 places per division. Prizes awarded for biggest White Bass, Hybrid, Striped Bass, Yellow Bass. Those finishing in the money each year would be invited to a National fishoff, which would be a 2 fish limit, on a lake TBD. At the conclusion of the long running event would be 4 open tournaments spread across the US as centrally as possible to allow further qualifying for the national event. These 4 tournaments would be held in the fall months. Going along with your entry into the tournament (35.00) would be a magazine subscription to REEL BASS which would cover fishing across the US on the prime striper hotspots as well as how to's, member pictures and stories and exit editorial. Conservation points awarded for verified live release and official weigh stations. This is still being fleshed out, although we may compete with the NSBA, there is room for both
11/16/2004 11:20:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.245.36.38) says Yes Robert that was a goal in 1999.
To put on a trail which would allow anyone to compete all across the US, live release awarded (not penalized) and so on. I was approached by a group in Atlanta long before the NSBA was organized, after further discussions and much planning this was tabled again in 2002. I am not nor do I want to put up with the hassle of promoting such a trail as a figure head or spokesperson or salesman. All I want to do anymore is TEACH people how to catch fish, catch big fish, and promote conservation of the bigger fish. All of which I can do in my boat and thru the internet.
To gbart or whoever you are, I have kept probably 10 fish from the Coosa system in 3 years of fishing all for the table, probably caught thousands more, so I really don't know what you are talking about, you may be just a little confused. LOL
11/17/2004 7:15:00 AM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Tony check your dates
Tony, I am not attacking you for what your trying to do. I just wont everybody to see the whole picture. You say 1999 and then again in 2002. But your post is on 8-13-03. You say live release. But on your post from 8-03 you talk about official weigh stations. Your tournaments dates were to be from March 1 and end September 3. Now I maybe wrong being a dumb Red- Neck from Dallas Ga. but does JUNE JULY AUG. fall in between those dates and isn't Mortality rate at it highest then. Like I said I am not attacking you just Quoting. Tony I just wont you to know as a guide I feel the same way you do. And for 2005 all my trips will be catch and release on 30+ lb's fish. But as a tournament angler I pray for that 30+lb fish. So with that said I guess we both have double standers. Good fishin. And may you get that 60lber you been after. Robert Eidson
11/17/2004 11:02:00 AM Tom Bare (65.40.172.231) says hold on a minute
I fished with Tony in the Hartwell tournament, and although I won't speak for him, I will say to any and all of you who have insinuated that we cheated in the Hartwell tournament go FUC*K YOURSELVES.
You argue about how great the NSBA is, that's one thing. But don't ever call me a cheater unless you can prove it. Defamation can get you sued, even when it is on a web site. And I promise you, I am just the guy to do it.
Tom Bare
11/17/2004 2:43:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.244.84.220) says Well I wouldn't take the bait
BECAUSE, we were tested, weighed and ruled by Striper Kings polygrapher and took our 5 grand to the bank. Bout the only cheating I have ever done in a tournament was go places where the striper were and kick butt doing so. Perhaps Jet Boats should be outlawed. LOL
11/17/2004 2:45:00 PM GeauxFish (68.19.110.164) says Backatcha tb
AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON!
I'm just stating the facts as I and others saw them. I'll let the readers draw their own opinions and conclusions.
Perception is almost always reality with me. I don't think anyone actually called you a cheater, but the perception sure was looking bad for your team that day.
Gary Gault
770-319-8000 (I'm here every Fuc*king day that I'm not fishing!)
11/17/2004 3:22:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.244.84.220) says Robert E.
My bad on 2003 post, so I was off a year. My concern still remains the same, what IF you do catch your 30-40# striped bass in a tournament? Are you going to weigh it alive and release it? What about the other 25 or so fish of this size caught every year in tournaments? MY POINT IS THAT THERE ARE WAYS TO WEIGH AND COUNT THESE FISH IN A TOURNAMENT WITHOUT DESTROYING THE BIGGER FISH DOING SO. No matter that they can be grown to that size again PROVIDED there are year classes above the 25# range. From a juevenile striper to the time that fish approaches 45" in length is 15-20 years. Fifteen to 20 years ago HMMM that fish started out around 1983-1984, yet fishermen cannot see the value and scaricity of such fish. Trophy management has not caught on with striped bass as it has been for deer, largemouth, trout etc. Until NSBA changes its 1 fish format,I stand by my concerns. The business idea you cite, was to be modeled like the pro walleye trail, crappiethon, Gulf Coast Star, a 1 fish weigh in, long running event where the fish could be captured, weighed at a marina and points awarded for live release, not a concentrated event that can and does see several trophy fish removed permanently from the watershed. You hope to capture a fish like that in a tournament, BUT if you continue to remove trophy fish they probably won't grow that big again in your lifetime.
I have caught/or clients have caught to date 20 fish in the low to mid fourties, killed one for sure, released all the rest (hopefully most survived) perhaps one of them will be that 50-60# fish you may catch someday. We have also caught too many 30+ to count all released. I have shown a very select few where to go and how to catch big Striped Bass, I want to be able to keep catching fish that size or bigger, there are very few waters where you can do so, the border waters between GA/SC have big fish BECAUSE there is so much water for them to hide in. Small lakes have big fish BECAUSE everyone bypasses them on the way to the big name resevoirs. If mega tournaments were held on Allatoona your favorite 4-5 times a year, you would see a definite drop in quality, no different for any of the other small lakes. As Bill Carson pointed out NSBA has "bugs" to work out, they also need people who will think "outside" the box in their tournament management plans. Blowing away the competition with 75# in 2 fish is not my idea of a test of the best fisherman in the tourney.
11/17/2004 4:31:00 PM Cbk (205.188.116.73) says Winter Time Blues
Well, I've seen this argument over and over and each side thinks that they have won after the long thread of cheap shots, misguided information & ignorance finally ends, and I can't help but wonder if a certain "legend in his own mind" guide couldn't find a better way to promote his guide service when business is a little slow. Go fish guys and have fun !
Good Fishin'
Randy Brown
11/17/2004 5:11:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.245.33.44) says Hoo HA
Yer a funny man RB, this buds for you!!!!! Chris says to tell ya hello, he's busy crankin in a 40 right about now!!
11/17/2004 6:20:00 PM Rckmn (216.170.77.158) says Very Disapointed by What I saw at an NSBA Tourney
Prior to October, I thought (based on what I read)the tournements sanctioned by the NSBA where desinged to protect the fishery or at least not to damage it. However, I went to the weigh in at Lake Martin (Sunday weigh-in), and out of about 8 fish, 2 were dead, and these were not big fish. Not very impressive. Then what amazed me where these fish were released at the boat launch in a small creek with no deep water for 3/4 a mile. Water temps were in the upper 70's and ow 80's. Therefore, i don't think there was a chance for those 6 fish that were released to even have a chance. Would it take to much effort to release these in deep water? Sure turned me off of the NSBA tourneys.
11/17/2004 9:03:00 PM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says Rckmn, You must be mistaken!
You must be mistaken! I remember meeting you at the Sunday weigh in and briefly talking about the striper tubes. Wrong information, even if unintentional, can cause harm to those trying to do some good things. We need to look at the facts.
1) According to your post 6 of 8 fish weighed in were alive and released. I think a 75% live weigh in on a voluntary basis is a positive thing! One fish (the 3rd place boat) was dead due to a malfunction of a striper tube built with a defective part. The cause was identified on the spot by me and resolved for the team captain. Fixing the problem was positive I think! The winning team was a local striped bass fisherman who lives on Lake Martin and who planned to eat the fish for his dinner that night. He did not own a striper tube and only fishes our Lake Martin tournaments. Except for the Gold Cup Series teams in Gold Cup Series tournaments, and our Championship tournaments where we provide every team with a striper tube if they need one, live release is optional. We do not require people to purchase our striper tubes to participate in the fun. However, we promote the positive of live release of the fish to encourage them to either build one or purchase a unit for the future. All these things I believe are positive!
2) Before someone makes a negative comment to you, I wanted to try and keep this positive and friendly. Here is where I believe that you are mistaken and that your observations are based on opinion. You may have been on the lake a couple weeks earlier, but a lot can change in a short time. You said that it amazed you that we released the fish at the ramp. Then you went on to say that the creek was shallow for � of a mile and that the surface temperature was upper 70s and low 80�s so you don�t think that the fish had a chance to survive. First, the tournament was held on October 24th. This is significant because the timing to hold a tournament on Lake Martin was dependent on the release being easy. We expected many 15-25 pound fish to be weighed in. Saturday had several. You need to know that most southern reservoirs and lakes begin their turnover from late September through Mid-October period. After the turnover the surface temperature is usually in the 72-73 degree range and since the thermal squeeze is over for the year the stripers have free range to go from the deepest bottom to the surface of the lake. Prior to October 23rd, Lake Martin had already turned over and the lake surface temperature on Saturday morning near the ramp was 71-degrees. On Sunday morning, I was in the boat that got 2nd place and all other boats were in the same area. We were up a river arm of Lake Martin and the surface temperature was 67-68 degrees. Our fish were caught in less than 12-feet of water. I did not measure the water temperature on Sunday afternoon, but after the cool night that we had in Alexander City Alabama that Saturday night, I do not believe it was higher than the 71-degrees measured and reported to me on Saturday. Now, since I have the official report from the SCDNR study that shows live release at 100% survival in cooler water. And since I know the water temperature on October 23 was within the maximum of the SCDNR study, I have a high confidence that those fish survived.
Also, if anyone is interested, Clemson University is currently doing a study of tournament held stripers in striper tubes transported to a tournament ramp and released at the ramp. This is being done with help from members of the Clarks Hill Striper Club, the Striper Kings Striper Club, the Appalachian Striper Club and obviously, the NSBA. They are interested in their survival under tournament conditions and the reaction the fish do upon release. Specifically, do they return to the school and/or area they were caught. And, if they do, how fast do they make that move. Again, this is positive in my opinion, but each has the right to have their own personal opinion. Just please be as accurate as possible when listing facts to base your opinions.
Warren Turner, Preside
11/17/2004 10:37:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Hey Tony how about this
How about a tournament like this. One fish but your team has to decide weather or not to keep the fish before you bring it in the boat.Lets say lines in the water at 7am. You hook up on a fish that looks like it's about 18lbs. Your team gets it up to the side of the boat and it's only 730am.Now it's time to decide keep the fish and be done for the day.Or let it go and keep fishing. Once a fish is bought in to the boat your done. If that team keeps that fish witch most teams would. That takes that team off the water and less fish hooked inculding some of those 30-40lb fish. This could make for a fun tournament and more inportantly less gut hook fish.And times of the tournament could get shorter. I'm not a tournament director nor do I what to be. But as an angler I would not mind trying this once.
11/18/2004 9:37:00 AM Nothin but Fish (207.59.211.194) says Trophy Fish
We all have differing opinions about how to do or not do a tournament trail in a way that won't deplete our "trophy" fish. Fish that most of us return to get bigger. I know the time it takes for a fish to get over 30 pounds varies and is based on a lot of factors and I have put in a call to a couple of DNR biologist to get a "real scientific" answer as to approximate time to make 30 pounds. What I do know from a count stand point is the numbers of "trophy" fish that the NSBA has officially handled over a 2 year period which anyone can see by going to www.fishnsba.com and then click on tournament results and then on "Lunker Roll". I counted these for the 2003 and 2004 years collectively and then added in the last "big tournament" that started all this conversation and found that in 2 years and some where around 100 tournaments there have been 105 fish over 20 lbs...of those there have been 16 over 30 lbs and 3 over 40 lbs. In most striper impoundments stripers are stocked every year in the 200,000 to 700,000 range per lake. I also know that improvements are made every year with respect to how the stocking is done and these improvements directly and positively effect the survival rate. As example, the stripers used to be stocked in Lanier at just 2-3 spots on the lake. When these stockings take place a stock fish is just a minnow thus a target for spotted bass, stripers, black bass, walleye....you name it. Well they tried an experiment of stocking at 12-15 locations and in the gill net surveys conducted discovered 10X the survival rates of previous years. Point being, striped bass is a "put and take" fishery and instead of arguing perhaps we can all make a positive impact on the sport we all are so passionate about by focusing more on "stocking" methods, pollution issues, hatchery concerns, etc. Last but not least...don't keep every fish you catch big or small and when you do release a fish take care in doing so. If the fish doesn't look like he'll make it then invite him over for dinner. If you do catch a "trophy" fish or a "dinner fish" and want to keep it your investment of money for license gives you the right and privilege to do so. For your information license sales in most states for both hunting and fishing have been on a downward trend for a number of years because today's kids had rather play Nintendo or what ever than fish or hunt. Take a kid hunting or fishing...teach him/her conservation, safety and common courtesy...the heritage that most of our fathers and forefathers taught us. Most of all THANK GOD that we live in a country where we can enjoy these privileges!
Tight lines...Bill Carson...<")))><
11/18/2004 11:50:00 AM Tony Hughes (4.245.36.254) says Couldn't agree more Bill
I suspect the majority of the 20# fish released had at least a 50/50 chance, that size fish I don't worry about. I would just as soon see people keep up to their limit any fish under 10#. There is a way to run the trail which won't cause larger fish to be targeted though, someting for the directors to consider I hope. It takes a lot of respect for that big fish to release her, something I know a few of the guides on the GA/SC border do regularly. As far as stocking rates Hamiltons larger fish are escapees from Ouachita, but I do know stocking of this lake is very limited, as are most stocking rates in Arkansas. Lower stocking rates are guaranteed to produce trophy fish, Russells 50# fish were also not stocked fish. NSBA wants to make a positive impact in Arkansas, then get a lobby going to PROTECT trophy fish in the small lakes such as Hamilton or Greeson if you are going to call attention to the trophy class population. I am sure Hot Springs and the Governor will appreciate the attention.
11/18/2004 12:10:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Bill, Were did you get your numbers
Bill, Where did you get your numbers. 200,000 to 700,000 per lake. Thatfor lakes like Lanier and Hartwell. Not lakes like Allatoona or Carters. I just got off the phone with Jim Hakala the biologist for Allatoona and Carters . And the numbers for lake Allatoona is about 35,000 and about 20,000 for Carters per year.I just don't won't people who fishes these lake to think there is more in them then there really are.
11/18/2004 2:21:00 PM Tony Hughes (4.245.34.174) says Robert E. here is what I consider a "fair" tournament
That also does NOT hurt a fishery. In states where allowed a 5 to 7 fish limit, all fish kept must be from 20-30". Points awarded (not penalized) for live fish release. Any fish brought in dead donated to a food charity with the tournament responsible for cleaning and bagging the fish. A one fish tournament is like winning the lottery, as Warren so aptly states "anyone can win". That to me is no test of an angler or teams ability to catch fish. With very liberal stocking rates on the big resevoirs even 4-5 tournaments a year won't cause a problem. In many tournaments limits won't be caught but the best anglers of that day will figure out how to bring em in. I won't pay or have a sponsor pay a 100-200 dollars per tournament fee when the results really mean nothing. I would love to play the lottery and be paid to participate in it, but that takes NO SKILL AT ALL!!!
11/18/2004 3:00:00 PM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says Robert, you are looking at it wrong!
Striped bass fishery managers as a general rule do not stock a number per lake, but a number per surface acre is the target. There are several things that come into play in striped bass reservoir management. Things such as forage fish, the amount of angling pressure, the type of fishery the management plan is trying to build such as �trophy� or �put and take�, and unfortunately, political pressure from non-fishery management influences can affect the actual numbers stocked each year. Additionally, the availability of brood fish to produce the target number of fingerlings and the productivity of the rearing ponds themselves has an effect on actual numbers available and stocked.
At the last American Fishery Society Striped Bass Management Committee meeting I attended, each state representative was asked to bring to the meeting a copy of their state�s Striped Bass Management Plan for discussion and review. It included stocking rates as well as other things. We are trying to look at striped bass management from a larger perspective and learn from the successes of each area.
Just to give you some examples of how different each management plan for each lake is, here is the current data given to us for the following lakes and reservoirs:
Impoundment/Stocking rate/Size limits/Creel Limits
Ouachita, AR / 5-fish per acre /none/ 3-fish per angler
Hamilton, AR / 5-fish per acre /none/ 3-fish per angler
Martin, AL / 2-fish per acre /none/ 30-fish per angler
Smith, AR / 1.5-fish per acre /none/ 30-fish per angler
Cumberland, KY / 7.5-fish per acre /24�/ 2-fish per angler
Murray, SC / 20-fish per acre /21�/ 5-fish per angler
Hartwell, SC,GA / 7-fish per acre plus hybrids /none /10-fish per angler
Thurmond, SC,GA /10-fish per acre plus hybrids /none/ 10-fish per angler
Martin, AL/ 2-fish per acre /none/ 30-fish per angler
Watts Barr, TN / 5-fish per acre /15�/ 2-fish per angler
Cherokee, TN / 2.5 per acre plus hybrid /15�/ 2-fish per angler
Norris, TN / 3-fish per acre /15�/ 2-fish per angler
Old Hickory, TN /10-fish per acre /15"/ 2-fish per angler
Percy Priest, TN / 2.5-fish per acre plus hybrid /15�/ 2-fish per angler
Tim�s Ford, TN / 2.5-fish per acre plus hybrid /15�/ 2-fish per angler
Smith Mountain, VA / 20-fish per acre /20�/ 4-fish per angler
Now, some lakes have some specifics used to accomplish certain objectives. For example, at Norris Lake the TWRA has a plan to implement a increase the size structure and the limit will be 2 fish 15� size limit in hotter months and a 1-fish 36-inch minimum size limit for the cooler months. The VDGIF has proposed a slot limit on Smith Mountain Lake that would have unlimited size and a 4-fish creel in the summer and a slot of 28-36 inch must be returned to the lake during the winter. These special regulations are put into place to obtain a specific action of increasing the size structure after these bodies of water have suffered a massive fish kill of 20-plus pound fish.
I hope everyone finds this post to be positive and very informative. That is what I have tried to convey!
Warren Turner President, NSBA
11/18/2004 3:39:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Warren I know that.
Warren, I know that. Allatoona is a 14,000 acre lake. They put 2.50 per acre in it .That come out to be about 35,000 for that lake .( RED-Neck ) math. Carters is about 4000- 5000 acres and they put 5 per acre in it So that puts it at about 20,000 per acre but thanks for the math class.lol
11/18/2004 4:12:00 PM Lineside (64.136.27.226) says math
Warren dont look for the math to be that accurate if Robert is doing it. Neither him nor I have enough fingers and toes lol. Tight lines and everyone needs to remember fishin should be fun. Dan Grajcar
11/18/2004 4:29:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Lineside fishing for Fun..
Fishing for fun man what an Ideal. Did you come up with that all on your on. lol. I have no trips for tomorrow. And I think there is about 100 gizzards left in the tank. Maybe not that many. I don't have that many toes so my count may be off. What do you think Lanier or Carters or maybe Bartlett Ferry. I'm Allatoona out. give me a call.
11/18/2004 4:30:00 PM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says I bet it was stripers only
Robert, the Georgia biologist did not make it to the AFS Striped Bass Management Committee meeting. I told Dan Wilson of the VDGIF that I would try and get the information for the committee but I have been so busy. I say this to say I do not know the numbers for the Georgia waters, but at 2.5/acre, I will bet you got the stripers stocking and it did not include the hybrids. Based on past years, I would guess the hybrid rates would be between 2.5 and 7.5 per acre for those lakes in addition to the striper stockings. I sould have the official numbers very soon. Sorry I cannot provide actual facts here.
Warren
11/18/2004 4:43:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Hybrids
Warren, On Carters its 5 stripers per acre and 5 hybrid per acre. On Allatoona its 2.50 stripers and I think 5 hybrids per acre. The Biologist for these lakes is Jim Hakala. Phone # 706 857-3394 I'm sure he can help you.
11/18/2004 7:38:00 PM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says Lineside, I know for a fact!
Lineside, I fished with Robert as his guest in the Allatoona NSBA tournament where we won the tournament with a live 24 pound striper and a live 15-pound striper. Robert could have won 2-tickets in the year long NSBA Boater's World Big Fish contest and a chance to win $10,000 cash. This program "rewarded" people for keeping their fish alive under a voluntary basis. One ticket would have been for having the Big Fish of the tournament and one would have been for keeping that big fish alive and letting that big fish go after the tournament was over.
After Robert realized he had missed that opportunity to win, he sat in the boat and pulled off his boots to see if he could count to 10,000. I had to explain to that "Georgia Redneck" as he calls himself, that each little piggy needed to be worth 1,000 each if he was not going to use his fingers. At that, Robert said " I can't use my fingers to count. How will I hold the piggy's apart when I count them! lol
Warren
11/18/2004 7:47:00 PM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says I'm Sorry I forgot
I do need to mention that Robert did actually win those 2 chances because he did win the big fish and it was alive and he did let it go immediately after weighing it in. However, it was at Lanier that I saw him counting his toes when he missed the 2-chances to win the chances for $10,000 guaranteed by Boater's World and the NSBA. Before the tournament I asked him about joining this year long contest and he said "I can't catch a big fish, I'll save my $50". And what did he do in the tournament? Caught the big fish!
11/18/2004 8:45:00 PM Robert Eidson. (68.32.67.137) says Don't forget Bartletts Ferry
Don't for get Bartletts Ferry we won BIG fish there too. So that gives us three tickets to win with. That was my bad at Lanier. We also release that fish alive to. That would have given us 5 tickets for the drawing. Oh Warren that fish at Lanier (lineside) was the angler of that fish. If I was to win that $10,000 I'll buy a calculator and a spell check. lol
11/18/2004 8:58:00 PM MikeF (66.168.199.196) says hate to butt in
I hate to butt in on what seems to be a personal vendeta but from what I've seen and heard maybe if we put more effort into improving water quality we might have a more positive impact on the fisheries.
11/18/2004 10:09:00 PM Lineside (64.136.27.226) says lol to Warren
Yea I was with Robert when we boated that big fish on Lanier and he was kicking himself all the way home. We are going to have Jim Hakala (I think thats how you spell his last name) at the Coosa Basin Striper Club meeting for December. He will be going over the stockings and surveys from Allatoona and Carters. The meeting will be held the second monday of December at the Ryans in Cartersville GA. Our meetings start around 7pm. It would be nice to see ya at one of the meetings Warren but I understand it is a long way and you are very busy. If anyone else would like to come please just show up or give me a call. Cy Dan Grajcar President CBSC 770-815-9579
11/19/2004 12:12:00 AM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says MikeF, I agree on the water quality thoughts!
Let�s not let a personal vendetta get in the way of doing something good!
Robert Eidson has already mentioned this but I will mention it again. I am very proud of the Coosa Basin Striper Club (CBSC) and their affiliation with the NSBA. They happen to be one of the smallest and newest striper clubs out there. I was proud to assist them in getting started by attending the start up meeting and providing them several different types of by-laws to get organized with. I was even happier when they were the second club to vote to join the NSBA as a full partner club. Since that time many more have joined their ranks. I have tried to explain to several people that the NSBA is much bigger than just a tournament organization. Our relationship with the CBSC is a great example of what we want to be. We sanction their club open tournaments and bring over 90% of the boats to their events to assist them in raising their conservation money. What did they do with that money this year? Well the GADNR wanted to put up 40 water quality monitoring stations up the Coosa River to monitor the quality of the water and to help them protect and preserve that fishery. Under our matching grant program, the CBSC, the GADBR, and the NSBA joined together to provide the funds for the project. The GADNR paid for 50% of the cost of the project and oversaw the installation, the CBSC paid for 25% of the cost, and the NSBA matched the CBSC money dollar for dollar and paid the other 25%. This is just one example of how people from different areas can work together to make an actual improvement to their striped bass fishery. I am proud to be associated with the CBSC in this project. But it doesn't stop there. The NGSC and the CHSC and the ASC, all from Georgia have completed projects in the last 2-years with our assistance and support. I highly recommend anyone out there to look for the closest striper club and become a member. If one is not available in your area, we will be happy to assist you in getting one started. Go to www.fishNSBA.com and look at our club's link page to find one closest to you.
Warren Turner President, NSBA
11/19/2004 5:44:00 AM Big'un (63.185.96.18) says I'll bite... Warren
"Also, if anyone is interested, Clemson University is currently doing a study of tournament held stripers in striper tubes transported to a tournament ramp and released at the ramp."
I'm interested, who is heading up this University study and how may I contact this person electronically or by phone? Thank you.
11/19/2004 10:14:00 AM Warren Turner (24.159.170.111) says Clemson Contact information
Remember the purpose of the study. "They are interested in their survival under tournament conditions and the reaction the fish do upon release. Specifically, do they return to the school and/or area they were caught. And, if they do, how fast do they make that move."
The Project Contact at Clemson University is Shawn Young. I just talked with Shawn and got his permission to post his contact information on a public board, since I did not know who was asking for the information. His phone number at the Clemson Fish Lab is 864-656-7162. He can also be reached at spyoung@clemson.edu.
Shawn also told me that this past weekend they were able to tag and release 4-fish using the striper tubes. He said all were vigorous on the release and when he went to track them a short time after the release. One had already traveled outside the range of the telemetry antenna, and 2 had already moved from the tournament ramp out into the river channel which is almost 1/2 mile and the 4th fish had left the ramp area and was swimming around way out in the creek/cove.
Warren Turner President, NSBA
11/19/2004 11:22:00 AM Danny Williams (209.184.242.253) says Save the big ones
Tony, You do like to raise a ruckus.! Haven't had the patience to read this whole string.....just wanted to say, "I 'm as competitive as the next person, but I hate to participate in a sport where there's such a potential to damage your prized quarry - the big striper. "
Fish for fun , take lots of pictures. and release it THEN. Thanks, Oklahoma Dan
11/19/2004 11:23:00 AM Nothin but Fish (207.59.211.194) says Follow up with DNR info
Just got off the phone with Reggie Weaver the biologist for Lanier. I know all lakes are unique. Having said that here is the scoop on Lanier and some highlights from my conversation:
Most 30#+ fish are 8-12 years old with the average being 10.
Most stripers in Southern impoundments do not live beyond 15 years.
Stripers get to 15 lbs in about 4 years.
Anglers only affect 1 in 4 fish.
For 2003 and 2004 there were approximately 300,000 stocked each year.
Because of the "multiple stocking points" method of stocking the creel studies showed 10X the survival rate of previous years.
Less fish were caught this year on the lake because we had better water quality than in previous years due to all of the hurricain rains thus speading the fish out all over the lake.
The average size fish caught in the creel nets recently were 4-6 lb fish which is partially because of the new stocking methods.
Perhaps this sheads some light on stripers as a species and specifically on Lanier. Other DNR's share successes and techniques and we benefit from this.
Tight lines...Bill Carson...<")))><
11/19/2004 1:38:00 PM MikeF (68.157.191.203) says that explains
That explains the number of smaller stripers being caught.I've caught more under 5# stripers this year than the total for the past five. Several times in July I was on schools where the biggest fish wouldn't have made a keeper spot.