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SUBJECT: Kel-Tec P32. Anybody know anything about this gun?...
Submitted by Eye--Crosser from TEXAS on
I am looking for a conceal-carry pocket and purse gun for myself and my wife. The Kel-Tec P32 (32 Auto) comes highly recommended by a friend of mine due to its size, reliability and accuracy (His words)....I did, however, want to ask some other opinions.
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howard from TEXAS says I have one;
it's a bit small even in my small hands. I wish it were made just a little in the handgrip and perhaps ergo contoured. I know that would make it harder to conceal but it would also, I think, make it easier to draw, aim and shoot.It is easy to shoot, a .32 doesn't kick much and this gun can be concealed in a back pocket. It doesn't have a safety, it works like the glocks in that respect but in a gun of that size I think an extra safety would be a major plus.
Accuracy, Well, its good but not great, I doubt you will be winning any competitions with it, even the friendly ones shooting against snub nose revolvers. The barrel is just too short and the small size makes the grip hard to hold the same way every time.
As a purse gun, if the purse has a special or can be made to have a special (as in sewing in one of your own) holster pocket I would say it's a great gun as long as the person using it doesn't have long fingers and long fingernails. The grip is not big enough around and your fingernails can come back and actually touch your hand on the other side of the gun.
For a holster carry, if size is important, like carrying with shorts and a tee shirt, yea, its great because you can hide it easily in an inside the waist band type holster without any discomfort.
It makes a great ultra light carry piece, it makes carry easy and convenient, but you will not be able to get it out very quickly if its concealed with shorts and a tee but it beats carrying rocks in your shoe to throw if you need it. If your wearing more clothing and can conceal a bigger gun, I would, and do, though there is not ultimate carry gun, this one is great for the conditions its great for.
Howard
Remember, all that is just my opinion, its free and worth every penny.
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howard from TEXAS says ps
I don't know what part of TX you are from but if you live close enough to the N-Dallas area and would like to meet at CCGR or one of the other ranges I would be glad to let you and your wife pop a few rounds down range to see if you like shooting it before you actually buy one.Howard
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Richard Ziert (67.24.75.50) from CALIFORNIA says Unfortunately this might be something you don't want to hear.
A .32 auto is not really much of a defense weapon. Be prepared to unload it quickly into your assailant. . .and then still be prepaired for the worst.
I know there will be some that will counter this post. But there are much better cals and bullets that would give you the confidence of knocking them on their butt for sure.
Rich
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Eye--Crosser from TEXAS says Yeah Rich....I was expecting that sooner or later......
I just want to find a comfortable conceal gun for my wife that doesn't have a substantial felt recoil. We shot a Walther PPK 380 and it was pretty tough on her....On the other hand, she shot a Glock 17, 26 and 27 and was quite comfortable with the recoil but we considered the Baby Glocks bulky for her purse and my pocket. -
Eye--Crosser from TEXAS says Not to mention...some of the diehards feel that....
the .380 and 9mm also fall under the "not good for self defense" umbrella. So where does it end? Am I going to have to ask my wife to carry a 45? -
Ollie Bear from CALIFORNIA says Here's my scoop on the subject.
Keltec guns are junk. Intra-tec, Pro-tec, Kel-tec, there're all the asme. CRAP. They rank right there with Davis, Bryco, Jennings as gangbangers specials. We used to put them all in one case closest to the door as the African Collection. Oh, I have met some geezers who keep insisitnig that it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but trust me. They are junk. Your friend who recommends this POS does not know much about guns.Now, what is the worse thing to happen if yo ubuy a piece of Made in Paksistan VCR? It does not work. You take it back to the store and yell about it, or just buy another Made in Pakistan VCR for $49.95. What happens when that peince of junk Kel-Tec fails to work whne you really need it????? It will be the most expensive peice of junk you will ever pay for cuz the sticker price could be your life.
.32 ACP is for James Bond fans who think a Walter PPK 7.62 (.32 ACP) goes through a window like a brick. Yeah right. Better than usinga tennis racket, but there are much better choices.
Walther PPK .380 is not an easu gun to use. "IT IS NOT A LADIES GUN". Not only does it have that wonderful 85 pound trigger on the first pull, it has a low profile slide tha likes to bite the back of your hand. It also has a very fast snappy recoil that easily jams from "limpwristing". The .380 ACP has almost the same pwoer as a .38 specila on the lighter loads, yet uses the same direct blowback operation, producing a very snappy, sharp recoil for its size. People who think this is a good "ladies" gun" is not well infomred.
The recoil spring is firm and racking a round in the chamber is difficult for most women. Again, any auto must be handled with absolute familiarity to serve you properly. Load, unload, check, clear, malfunction clearance drills. etc. If you are not going to take the time to learn it, go to a revolver.
A very good piece would be a Smith Wesson "hammerless" in .38 Special. Idiot proof, reliable, and no messing around. Use the 158 grain lead semiwadcutter loads on it. It will never get the speed of a magnum out of a 6" barrel, so use the heavier loads for better performance. The 129+P JHP are pretty good as well. The alumimun frames are comforatable but will recoil a bit more. Less weight, less recoil absorbing weight. Now remember, comfort must come second to performance. It will be carried 99.999% of thee time. When your wife has to use it, she woun't feel a thing. Chokce up on the grip so that the web of her hand in right there at the break where the backstrap ends and the rear of hte frame begins. That will also abosorb recoild and enhance control.
Recoil is also a function of training and expereince. As she gets more expereinced, she will not be bothered by the slight recoil.
I have always said this to people who came in to buy guns from me..."Never dumb down the gun to he present level. Always bring her UP to the level of what she can be."
As Clint Smith says, the gun he carries is not carried becuae it is COMFORTABLE, he carries it because it is COMFORTING.
HOpe this dispels some myths.
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OllieBear83 (63.205.214.33) from CALIFORNIA says Correction: 158 grain lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoints.
I had inadvertanly left out the HOLLOWPOINT in the lead semi-wadcutter part. -
Dr. Phyl from OTHER says Nice Ollie, you covered
this real well. As for what can be afforded, one needs to remember what Ollie said. When you need it it has to work,,,Period. A quality piece may cost more on the front end,, so what?? it will also appreciate in value if it's taken care of and you can get your money back out of it later. You can't do that with the cheapies. Listen to Ollie, he makes a lot of sense on this. My choice (for her)would be the .38 snub with +P loads. Easy to learn, easy to use, no frills to remember if in a crisis situation. Find someone that has one and try it out. Whatever you end up with, practice, practice, practice. Not just shooting, but shooting, removing the weapon from the holster, purse, buttpack, or whatever you intend to carry it in. Makes no sense to be good with the weapon if you can't automatically find it, remove it, and be ready to use it, without a long thought process. Then when you get all that done, and before she sets out carrying it,,, be sure to have her read Massad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme". This should be a must for any "non-professional" to read prior to carrying. Just my opinion. -
davisb3 (204.22.24.233) from MICHIGAN says Carry Gun
Do not like the small autos for all the reasons cited above and strongly agree with Ollie's definition of "junk". Gave my wife a S&W chiefs special . This is a light easy to operate handgun that is my choice for ladies and seniors who do not need and have trouble working the big autos.Few years ago they made some special ammo for the snub nose guns that was warm enough without big recoil, also like semi wadcutters.There is/was a lady in Dallas who offered nice ladies purses built like a muff so a womens gun was accessible but not visable when the purse was open. -
John (66.140.157.129) from TEXAS says forget the recoil
all the recoil crap is just that crap when your life is on the line you will not hear or feel it .... but when she jam's that auto jammer thats when she and you will hear and feel it get her a lady smith designed for ladies concealed carry fill it to the brim with wad cutters or hollowpoints .... get your self a med frame 375 and the hell with all the autos if you are not trained and pratice with autos all the time you will have a problem at the WORST time .....john -
Ethan Edwards from KANSAS says Now here comes EE with a little different take on it...
I've never owned one, so I don't have personal experience with the P-32. I've read some articles on them and also talked with guys who've owned them. None had anything bad to say about them. The conventional wisdom seemed to be that they were not as good as some higher priced guns (Seecamps) but were not junk-"best buy" would be a good term.As for quality versus junk with price as a measure; I've owned enough high-dollar guns that didn't work and enough low-budget ones that did to know that high price cannot be your only criteria for a good weapon. That said, the rule that you get what you pay for, cannot be discounted entirely. Just take it with a grain of salt. A case in point would be the Davis Derringer, a very servicable deep-concealment weapon that is also very inexpensive. A flipside to this would be some of the Jennings 22 autos that were touted as "best buys" by the gun magazines-but which would never work worth a dern for me. So everybody on here who says the P-32 is junk, may be right.
As for the 32 ACP cartridge, yes, there are many cartridges more suitable for self-defense. I would much rather have a 40 S&W or a 357. The allure of the 32 is in its packaging. It is available in some sweet little guns which are much easier to conceal than the delivery systems of the larger and more effective calibers. If you go with the 32, use only the best ammo available (assuming it will feed reliably and group reasonably well from your gun). The last stats I saw were the Silvertip. Ten years ago, the Seecamp was very fashionable among deep concealment aficionados. It only used the Silvertip. At that time, the 32 was a very desirable cartridge. The Kel-Tec came along as an answer to the high prices of the Seecamp. Later came the Beretta Tomcat. Today, the advent of smaller more compact 9's and 40's have taken much of the 32's market away from it-much as the 32 did to the 380 when the Seecamp became available and the Silvertip came to be known as relatively effective as a manstopper. It is effective relative to the size of the guns it is available in, which are only a small step in size up from truly deep concealment guns. The 32 is a big step up the one-shot-stop scale from cartridges such as the 22 and 25 though. Kel-Tec now makes a little 9 which is only slightly larger. As for recoil, I'm sure the 32 is much more managable than a same-size 9. That said, I think I would want my wife to train to manage the recoil of the better cartridge than to go with a lesser one, with no other advantages. If recoil is a definite problem, and you want an auto, get her a Seecamp or a Beretta Tomcat. I wouldn't feel too good after what the other folks on here said, buying my wife the P-32, unless I tested it myself EXTENSIVELY, before even bothering her to learn it.
I agree with the others about the reliability, ease of learning and relative safety of a hammerless, double-action only revolver. If she can't, at first, handle full-house 357's, let her use the 38 Spec. in it. Get her the hottest loads she can handle comfortably and accurately. My wife has a Colt Magnum Carry (357 version of the old Detective Special) which she loads with 38 Treasury loads. They are a reasonable compromise between stopping power and controlability for her. It's not as safe as a hammerless though.
Just my humble opinion, definitely not the last word on the subject. The earlier posts make some excellent points.
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howard from TEXAS says I guess I am going to support some of what EE said.
In answer to the P32 being crap, well, I can certainly understand Ollie saying its crap. He has very strong opinions on the matter and apparently has only two classes of guns, great and crap. I personally think there is some middle ground, I see lesser, good and great. I rate the p32 as good. To show you what I am basing that on, I consider Glock to be great, I have a little .25 made in Italy that starts miss feeding after the third shot, that I consider lesser.
If I only had two I would have to say glock is great and everything else is crap though. I have been to several training classes and I have seen almost every brand of gun fail except the glock. And to be honest, even my beloved glock used to stove pipe on me before I got the after market mag springs. There is no such thing as 100%. Remember that, its important later.
My own experience with the .32 is that mine has given me no trouble at all that I could not attribute to me. It's not a glock, you can't fire 3k rounds through it and it still work perfectly. You do have to keep it clean and make sure all the parts are working OK for it to be reliable.
As to caliber and felt recoil. What John said is one way of looking at it, and it is probably true. However, I disagree almost as much as is humanly possible. I personally think the worst thing you can possibly do is go out and buy a gun that shoots big old bullets, stick it in your pocket or purse, never take it out or think about it again, and think you are carrying it for any form of self defense.
OK, you should skip this next part if you don't like preaching.
When you are in a high stress situation you do NOT want to be fumbling around trying to figure out how something works, especially a gun. I cannot think of a more stressful situation that one in which your life is being threatened to the point of you considering deadly force as a reasonable course of action. That means you are under so much stress that you are considering killing another human being. Chances are that you are not even going to remember you have a gun so its not going to do you any good. If you do remember you have it, you are not going to be able to think clearly where it is and how to get it out quickly. If you do manage to get it out, you are not going to know how to handle it correctly and will probably accidentally put your finger on the trigger as part of grabbing it and not having used it enough, you will not know how much pressure it can take and stand a pretty good chance of it going off in some random direction.
Now, on the other hand, if you get the gun, take training courses, go to the range, shoot some rounds once in a while, keep the gun clean, and confirm with actual shooting that the gun is in good working order you will be much more likely to remember it, know where it is and how to get it, and from memory know how to handle it. It will be familiar, you won't be having to think about it or figure it out. Remember that no gun is 100% thing. Its true, if nothing else, eventually you will find a bullet that the primer just didn't work. I see them all the time on the range, sometimes even the premium brands. Something will go wrong. If you never practice how will you know how to deal with it quickly, recover, and keep going. A revolver is simple, but if you don't know what to do, or don't know that it can happen; you never know what you might do.
Now, the part about why I don't agree with getting the bigger bang because you will not notice it when the moment comes. If the gun is too much for you or does not fit your hand well or is unpleasant to shoot, you will be much less likely to take the courses with it or to practice with it. If you take the courses you will use some other gun and will practice with some other gun, then your back in that situation, fumbling around not knowing the gun you are using, or worse, wont practice with anything or take any courses. A .32 that hits the bad guy center mass has much more stopping power than a .44 mag that hits the trash can off to his left. From what I understand, more people are killed each year from .22 than any other caliber and most gunfights are less than 5 shots.
I have one of the hammerless .38 revolvers, an air weight from SandW. I will tell you right now, that thing is very uncomfortable to shoot. Perhaps its my hand shape or size or something, I have had three different grips on it and still, I can't keep my grip in the same place between shots which seriously slows down my shooting. And I am not the only one. Its not a matter of just recoil. It is also how well the gun fits your hand and how you hold the gun to shoot it. If I had my preference, I would carry the glock 19, but its a little large and hard to conceal in shorts and a Tee. The little Kel-tek is easier to conceal, less noticeable, but still provides armed protection.
Bottom line, for me, it's not the best thing sense sliced bread, but its not a hunk of total crap either.
You just have to decide if you want to believe the theory that flinging as large a piece of metal as possible as fast as possible is the best or only way to defend your self, of if you are going to believe the theory that size is less important than accuracy and practice. I personally can't tell you which is correct, probably neither is completely correct, its something you have to decide and go with.
Howard
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olliebear (63.205.214.33) from CALIFORNIA says Just have the revolver bobbed and neutered.
Take it to a good smith and have the Colt revolver's hammer bobbed to remove the hammer spur for cocking and neutered, cutand grind off the cocking notch so it cannot be cocked. It works the same way as being hammerless and it also removes the snagging inherent of a spurred hammer.Seecamp 32 was the rage some years ago. It was not the cost---about $400 new, but the waiting period---over three years to get one from Seecamp. It seems that Louis Seecamp makes them one at a time and would not or could not expand his capacity---an obvious conclusion given a three year backlog of orders. SO those with Seecamps would sell their pistols for $700-$900 for people who didn't want to wait. If I had to use a .32, and heaven forbid I need it, I'd go with the Beretta Tomcat.
EE is correct, a high price is not a guarantee of relaibility or quality. However, guns from Sig Sauer, HK, Smith Wesson, Browning, etc, have a very high level of quality assurance. They supply guns to major military forces that have tested their reliability to the Nth degree under the harshest extremes and used in all manner of abuse and intentioanla incompetence to MAKE it malfunction. They were tested to the point of breakdsonw to know when it will break. The AVERAGE malfunction--not a break, but a clearable malfunction for the Beretta 92FS is over 6,000 rounds per malfunction. And that is with minimum cleaning and maintenance. HKs have gone thourh 10,000 rounds without any malfunctions. Les Baer Custom Guns provide 1911 to the FBI HRT and SWAT Units. Their SRP Pistols are known for quality and reliability. Not even Bill Wilson guns can brag about being an approved supplier to a top Fed Spec Op team. in fact, Bill Wilson has never had a contract to supply any law enforcemetn or spec op team.
Although Keltec MAY be the better POS than the other POS, Kel-tec has never and will never be a quality firearm that I would depend my life on. Ya just can't polish a turd. 'Nuf said.
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Ethan Edwards from KANSAS says Why I no longer have a Beretta.
I used to have a Beretta 22. It was the "Bobcat" I believe, only it was before the Tomcat came out and there was a numeric-type designation rather than a nickname. At any rate, it was the Tomcat in 22 LR. Nearly every time I've been in a "situation" where a gun was either called for outright, or there was a good possibility of it being needed shortly, I've had a firearm of this type. By "this type", I mean something meant for deep concealment, if not ultra-deep concealment-definitely not a full-size pistol or even a pocket-pistol. I recall being in Kansas City at a coin store and having a street-person come in whilst I was looking over some merchandise. He and his woman had some old common Indian Head pennies or some such for sale. I immediately suspected theft, but of course, the coin store owner showed absolutely no concern. I know the coin store guy and he opposed both Missouri's and Kansas' CCW efforts. Anyway, coin store guy (CSG) didn't give street person (sp) enough money in sp's opinion. SP began to grumble and make threatening remarks under his breath to his woman. This was downtown KC, not a good area, but not terrible either. I put my hand in my pocket on my trusty Beretta. The problem was, if sp had thrown down, I would've had to have racked the slide on the Beretta before getting into action. Probably the anti-gun CSG would've bought the farm and I could've done it but I'm glad to have not participated in that little experiment. The Beretta was a fine gun, but the safety was extremely hard to manipulate, thus, I ignored it. Later on, my wife had to go to a convention in KC or Topeka. I started to arm her with the Beretta but finally gave up. It was simply too complicated to manipulate. I later traded it off. The point of this is, Howard is right about fumbling your presentation. Also, much can be said for simplicity. I like Berettas like the Tomcat, but I wouldn't really want one due to their complex operations. Much better to get a Double action revolver, a Double-action only auto, or a Safe-action Glock-if you trust the safety of the safe-action. A Davis Derringer, as we've discussed before, is a nice little piece and inexpensive. It has a simple hammer-block safety and is available in the 32ACP. In a larger frame, I think it's available in 38 Spec. The American Derringer is a truly quality weapon available in a myriad of calibers. Its drawback is that it is relatively large. Another option are North American Arms and Freedom Arms mini-revolvers. A friend of mine who lives in Arlington, TX carries one on his strolls through his decaying neighborhood. (He's retired and on a fixed income with a couple of divorced daughters who need financial help from time to time-so moving is out.) At any rate, out of all this rambling, I wanted to add some caveats to the Beretta recommendation.Oh yeah, SP finally left, disgruntled, practically dragged out by his woman. They were both obviously drunk, although it was full daylight out. They hung around outside the shop, where I watched him carefully. CSG acted as if it were business as usual and paid him no mind.
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olliebear (63.205.214.33) from CALIFORNIA says Notice how small cell phones are these days???
Real cute, aren't they? But have you noticed that they are jsut too small to find when they are lost in a purse, in a pocket, or in the center console in the car...Notice how small the buttons are and how your finger crushes two buttons instead of the one you want???Whne you have this teeny weeny little gun in your pcoekt, jingling around, lost in the keys, coins, purses, hankerchiefs, and cell phones, you can't get to it real fast. When you can get to it, is it in the right position? Right side up, barrel forward, hands on the grip properly?
How fast can you rack the slide on that teeny weenie cute littel gun? Is the safety so smal you can't even feel it?
Is that littel Beretta 21 so small iut needs a tip up barrel? Are you aware that if there is a dead round you cannot rack another round it becuase there is no extractor on those teeny weenie Berettas? They operate by blowback extraction. If you have a dead round, you are PHUCKED!
If you cannot get the gun out becuase you cannot find it, you are PHUCKED.
If you fumble to get at it becuase it came out the wrong end and you have to diffle with it to get it muzzle front and right side up, you are PHUCKED.
If you can't rack the slide or operate hte safety because the littel teeny weenie parts are too damned small, you are PHUCKED.
Get a gun big enough to work right. To fit, right, and to be holstered correctly so your hand can reach for it correctly each and every time.
And when you do get this teeny weenie gun out, and pointed at the perp, and he laughs at it instead of paying you instant respct, and is not intimidated by to to be deterred, you may be forced to fire. Do perps laugh at teeny weenie guns and contine the attack? Yes they do. Just read enough case studies in Sanow/Marshall or Ayoob Files. They do laugh and they do attack, and you may be forced to fire. ANd to find out whether that .32 will stop an attacker 4 feet away.
Both Marshall/Sanow and Ayoob cooroborates that perps do repsect the front end of a standard pistol. They do repsect a 1911 cocked and locked. And I can tell you that the times I had to clear leather and point the front end of my .45 at a perp, his eyes got real wide and he knew the drill. Showed his hands, held it open, and walked backwards slowly. (Due to the bell shaped barrel on a Colt Officer's it is subsntaitally thicker than a standard 1911 .45. I then buffed the muzzle until it was very shiny. When seen fron teh front, the muzzle looks big enough to stick your head in to chekc the chamber. And if you look at it wiht the right light, you can actually see the fat hollowpoint sitting in the chamber pointed at you. Perps also do notice that I carried cocked and locked cuz they've comented on it. I've had to give several persp that lovely view and can say the sight of properly drawn and aimed .45 got their attention real fast. They left, no shots needed. No Harm no Foul. isn't thaT WHAT WE ALL WANTED?)
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Dr. Phyl from OTHER says I'm glad you mentioned
the intimidation factor Ollie, and the fact it can calm a situation rather than escalating it. That's the priority. My personal opinion of the "little" auto pocket units is that they at best are a nut sack ventilator. Never have owned one, never will. -
howard from TEXAS says intimidation factor
I would say trust to that intimidation factor at your own peril. Yea it will work for someone who don't take no crap any way. Ollie could pull it off, probably many here could, but someone older, or frailer, pulling out a gun too big for them to handle well, shaking like a leaf in the wind, Chances are they are not going to be all that intimidating.I stand by what I said, get a gun that fits your hand and that you can shoot, learn to use it, practice with it, and don't pull it out unless you are prepared to administer lethal force.
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olliebear (63.205.214.33) from CALIFORNIA says But that is it, Howard.
Practice with it, ;earn to sue it. Learn some basic techniques. Those skills become the confidence. No gun in the nads of a frail unsure, fightened perosn would intimidate a brazen, hardcore, prison hardedned perp. But thes perps do know what a trained or even semi-trained gun handler moves like. They know what a good two handed modified Weaver stance looks like even when they can't even spell it. They know what the drill is all about. So you are correect, you gots to know how to use it. THe gun is merely a tool. It's how it's used. But when you separate the technique from the tool and look at the tool itself, then we must cosndier all hte facets of that tool. -
howard from TEXAS says True but
My argument about the bigger calibers is that if the gun is too much for you or isn't comfortable and fun to shoot, you will not be willing to put in enough practice to learn it.
Enjoying practice = more practice = more shooting = wanting to take training classes = making practice more fun = enjoying practice = ?.
Not enjoying practice = less practice = no shooting = not thinking about training classes = not building up the confidence = ?.
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Ollie Bear from CALIFORNIA says Then I guess it comes down to a take it or leave it.
If a person wants to carry a gun for protection, then that person owes it to him/herself, their family, and to society to learn it properly. If that person is not willing to learn it, they should leave it alone, as it will do them, thier family, adn society no good.I'm not asking them to like it. I don't like cleanign and scrubbing the toilet or the tub, but after years of doing it, I get pretty good at it.
I take a pretty hard nosed Prussian view of things when it comes to guns.
Achtung! You vill do it and vill enjoy it vetter you vant to or not!!! Schnell! Schnell!!!
Fortunately, I enjoyed my guns though I have basically left it for my other great pasttime, FISHING!
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James Montgomery (206.155.214.16) from Tennessee says Wanting to purchase a .22 semi-auto pistol.
I want to buy a .22 for plinking and target shooting. I just want a fun gun. I already own a .22 revolver and I now want a semi-auto. Most people like the Rugers just wondering what the opinions were on this board. -
Ollie Bear from CALIFORNIA says Browing buckmarks, S&W 2204
that and Ruger's MkII are all good. -
Ethan Edwards from KANSAS says James
Do a brand-new post on this and you'll get more responses. None of my business, just tryin' to be helpful.As to your question-what Ollie said.
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James Montgomery (206.155.214.16) from TENNESSEE says .22 semi-auto
Ollie Bear thanks for the input. Ethan Edwards also thanks to you I will do a new post. This was my first time at this sight and I didn't check the format well enough. Again thanks guys. -
howard from TEXAS says some options on .22lr plinking guns
The rugers are nice shooting guns no doubt about it, I have shot them on several occasions though I don't own one personally.There are another couple of guns you may want to look at though, before making a final decision. The browning Buckmark and the Colt. I don't own and have not fired the colt but from all accounts its a good quality reliable gun. The buckmark is also a very fine plinker. I have and plink with mine quite a bit. I personally think its easier to take down and clean than the ruger and has fewer parts. It does require a hex wrench to disassemble though and having a set of hex screws on hand if one wears out is a good idea too.
What if boils down to for me is I like the feel of the buckmark in my hand better than I like the ruger or the colt.
Just some stuff to consider before the purchase.
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Ollie Bear from CALIFORNIA says The only negative on Ruger Mk II
is the little trick in getting them back together again. Once you get the hang of it, it comes apart and goes back together pretty easily. However, many foul words and curses have been spewed when those who knew it all found out that they did not know it all when assembling the main spring housing together...... -
cyril williams (64.91.51.46) from Washington says p-32
luv guns. kel tecs are generally ok. the p-ll is an economical small light 9 mm. ive polished everything and change springs every 1000 rounds. the p-32 is ok, especially after 200 rounds. polish everything and follow the ktog site. for beginners and frail people 38 taurus or sw. hammerless revolver is the easiest to learn and has the least problems. walther ppk 380 is totally unreliabe and princess diana's bodyguards ppk jammed up and the switched to the 38 cal. sw. alloy, bodyguard. same thing happened to me at the range. the ppk is a tv style gun for elitests who dont really carry or use guns. my wife carries a lite-wt sw bodyguard because it is the best overall choice. for someone experieced the poly-framed kahr 9mm or 40 is really nice. i have glocks and they are chunky and are best left to people that practice a lot, which most people dont do. later cyril -
Ollie Bear from CALIFORNIA says You're right about the PPK, Cyril, but they can work...
if you learn proper gun handling, and give a FIRM wrist control to prevent stovepiping. Whne you say it jams, it does not say what it is not doing. Stovepiping is the most common culprit. It alszo likes Winchester Silvertips over all over ammo. Whne you feed it what it wants and handle it like it needs to (kinda like hot Italian women) it works... -
Joe Willy (67.162.178.198) from TEXAS says The PPK
I read your comments, and for the most part they are correct. A PPK is a persnickity gun to handle. Unfortunately, they got a bad rap from early on due mostly to Interarms mis-manufacture of the pistol. The Interarms version always had a problem with either not picking up the shell to eject it, or in stove piping when it attempted to chamber a new round. Interarms knew about this problem for the entire time they manufactured the gun, but chose not to do anything about it. However, after Smith&Wesson bought out Walther, they refused to allow the gun to go into production till this flaw was fixed. Most second generation Walthers under the S$W manufacture are excellent weapons. This is not to say they are easy for women. They are not. They have a tight strong, blow back operation on a small frame. Plust they tend to bite the hand that shot them, so to speak, in that they are hard on the junction between the trigger finger and thumb. As for the .380 or 32acp rounds. Well, generally speaking you can shoot a person with anything from a .22 to a .45 and unless the round strikes something vital, ie: heart, lung, artery, or nerve cluster that will stop them either instantly or in a very few moments, it doesn't matter how big a bullet you use. Your basically poking holes in them. Hydra-shok or other fast mushrooming bullets only make, slightly, bigger hole allowing a better chance to hit one of those vital spots. The only difference you might get is in bullets such as Black Talons that create blades actually cutting as they pass through, or some of the safety slugs that dispense all their energy IN the target. Basically, they explode. In cases like this, a .380, 32, or 9mm is an excellent round. But only when used in a professional manner that lets you use the bullets you have to their best effectiveness. -
Dave (209.114.161.182) from PENNSYLVANIA says Kel-tec .32
I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said above in one form or another. But none the less I'd like to add my two cents.I have shot many guns a little. I have shot some guns alot. And during "RAM" testing in the military (currently retired) I shot several weapon types in excess of hundreds of thousands of rounds. But I would like to expound on some of the issues above.
Every individual gun is a "law unto itself". There are NO hard and fast rules about how reliable any individual gun will be.....until you have tried it. While it is true that you "tend to get what you pay for" it is not true that price, brand, model, etc. will ensure you have a firearm that is reliable and worthy of your trust. There is only one true determinent. That is to personally take the firearm in question out and shoot it. At a minimum of 200 or 300 rounds, and preferably more. Insure that you do that with the ammunition you actually intend to carry it with. After you have determined that the gun is indeed reliable, then work out a carry system, and a drill for accessing and putting it into battery. If you believe your life is important enough to protect you will do these things. If you fail to do these, at a minimum, you obviously prefer to leave your survival to pure chance. It is that simple! There are no exceptions, and no explanations needed. You either care.....or you don't! If you do, you will do the above. You will also make a point of finding a facility where you can practice these skills at regular intervals. Again, more is better. Best of all receive instructions from a "professional" in the field...then practice. It is your life, and your decision.
As a final note. I have owned a Grendel (Pre Kel-tec) chambered for .380 ACP. I fired between 500 and 1000 rounds through that gun in a two year period. It never failed once to fire when I pulled the trigger, and cycle and function properly. Now that was only one example...but it was the one that "I" sometimes carried. I have owned a Jennings J22 that after I learned to clean it at a minimum of every 250-300 rounds, it "almost" always functioned. (But rimfire ammo is seldom as reliable as centerfire ammo.) I have owned S&W's and even a Colt Python that have gone "out of time" and required smithing to resolve. I have had two Steyr rifles (over $1,200. retail) in a row that had incorrect headspacing "new from the factory" which lead to case head separations when fired. Both were returned and I selected a different caliber for the third rifle. I've had to return Leupold and Zeiss scopes for problems, (of course the companies made good on the warranty), to be corrected. The point of all of this is.....price is neither the only nor even the best indicator of whether an item will work. Only experience is!!!
A "major" caliber is much to be preferred. Revolvers are easier to put into battery and maintain proficiency, (if you know that your practice will be limited). But the best gun for defending yourself with is the gun that you are both familiar with and have with you "at all times". Don't be inclined to buy a gun so large that you will tire of carrying it and leave it behind. I know guns are carried to be comforting....not comfortable. But reality being what it is some folks either can not dress in a way to reasonably conceal larger weapons, or will be so intimidated by them that they won't. I am not going to argue with anyone about what is "best" when the SHTF. They are all better than fingernails and teeth! (Besides if I knew I was going to a pistol fight...I wouldn't take a rifle....I simply wouldn't go!) What is best is what you have when you need it, and you've had enough practice that you know how to use it!
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Highplainsman (64.207.76.14) from TEXAS says Kel-Tec P32
Have not owned or shot the P32.I have owned a couple of P11s. The only thing I didn't like about them was the trigger pull. I understand the P-32 has a much better trigger pull. They are economical but they aren't junk. As a LE I own and carry Glocks G22,23 and 27. Also a Kimber occasionally. At this writting I have a Kel-Tec 380 that a friend loaned me to evaluate, stuck in my hip pocket. (Still have my G22 on my hip)and if I hadn't put this little gun there I would not even be aware of it. About an hour and a half ago I shot it at seven yards and put six of the seven in a silver dollar size group. Recoil was hardly there, nothing like the 38 snubbies some have been recommending to you. Trigger pull was much better than some high dollar DA autos I have shot. This is a neat little gun and would be handy as a back up or as the one you might stick in your pocket when somthing larger and heavier might be left in the vehicle or at home. The gun that saves your bacon is the one you have with you. While I wouldn't recomend it as primary carry I know that most of us for convienence of dress or comfort will sometimes make the mistake of not having our weapon with us. With this little 380 (weighs only 10 ozs fully loaded) no excuses. My advice! Get a Glock G23 for a primary carry weapon and the Kel-Tec 380 for a back up. Nuff said! God Bless and stay safe! -
Heather (68.225.216.86) from ARIZONA says Jennings J-22
I received a Jennings J-22 as a gift. It did not come with a manual. Can someone please tell me how to clean it. Thanks for the help. -
C.d. (207.189.1.146) from MISSISSIPPI says Kel Tec .380 wanted
I am interested in buying a Kel Tec .380 at a good price $220 or less depending on if it is new or used. -
Gil (208.235.71.181) from OHIO says Kel tec 32
I own two kel tec 32, one 382 and the P-11 the the 9mm, 40 and 357sig slides and barrels. I like the Kel-Tec 32s and Have had not problems with mine. I did polish up the ramps. I have friends who have told me if there is not a 4 in front of it, it is not a pistol. I served 24 years in the Marine Corps, from Vietnam to Saudi Arabia and in between. Short stint as a LE. Now I teach. I saw a unit use 22 shorts and it place the person down (Israel)& (Turkey). So I would say shot placement is most important. I would practice with the 32 and should you have a jam be prepared to clear it. I do like a revolver for personnel who do not have experience with an automatic. they do not jam and if you use clean ammunition you should not have a problem. Til I joined the Marine Corps, I thought I was tough, found out different. (grew up in East Los Angeles). Do not let the wolves get you. Be safe. -
c (151.205.86.26) from WEST VIRGINIA says kel tec p 32 auto
yes i have one of them no they are not great on being accurate but thats not everything in defence i bought mine so i would not have to carry and clean my 9mm every time i went 4 wheeling mine has a belt clip built on the side so it goes right inside comfortly of my front pants pocket and looks like a pocket knife i also bought the ten round extended clip so that the grips would be a little more comfortable it has no saftey but the trigger is a little stiff about like a double action kind of feel mine has never let me down and i hardly ever leave it at home i know i could draw and kill at 10 yards more than that i would prefer a diff weapon but conceling and comfort fast draw and getting the shot off is what i care about 10 rounds at 10 yards really fast and hardly no recoil i love mine if i had any wishes it would be a longer range of accuracy or built a little tougher for shooting it a lot its not a every day shooter but keep it clean and polish a couple parts and i think its a great weapon
