Attn Rob Shaw........ Attn Rob Shaw........
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    Attn Rob Shaw........
from Hutch #10968 #10968  
5/8/2012 8:47:11 PM


  This appears to be a practical and innovative approach to giving vets credit for skills they have learned in the service. I am proud of our Congress in the most RED state in the union which has passed many worthwhile bills since gaining control..... Our state unemployment is now down to about 5.2 percent and this bill can only help our vets.... you agree? Hope you like it..... Hutch

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   Sounds like a good deal from DaveT  5/8/2012 9:16:35 PM
Our country should do more for the vets.

   HMMMMM, proceed with caution! from JohnM  5/8/2012 10:30:37 PM
"SB 1863 will also help the spouses of active military find employment easier by requiring agencies, boards and commissions to develop procedures to expedite the licensure of military spouse applicants. In order to qualify, the military member must be on active duty within the state or claim permanent residency in the state for six months prior to assignment to active duty or during the period of active duty. The applicant must be certified in another state to perform those professional services and have left employment in another state to accompany the spouse on active duty. A temporary permit may be issued if the person needs to complete additional requirements not required in the previous state."

ANYTIME I see a mandate from the feds to the state big red flags go up. The vets now get 100% tuition reimbursement while on active duty. It's not like it was while I was in the old 75% and you had to study the field you worked in to get that. VEAP stunk when we got out.

This mandate will increase the workload on ALL colleges, they will raise tuition on all students to compensate. The private colleges will scramble for the 90/10 money.

Right now you have states in competition to lure Vets to their state. The DOD pays unemployment to the Vets through the state coffers. They can be a FT student AND draw UI at the same time WHILE on the GI BIll and draw a grand or so in stipend in many cases. This skews the crap out of the unemployment numbers.

The Vets have all kinds of employment services available including outplacement for at least 180 days.

Please don't get me wrong. I SALUTE all that have served before and after me. I simply don't like someone taking advantage of Vets for political reasons. I am also not one for "Vet Preference". You may as well call that affirmative action. If properly trained the Vet should be able to knock the socks off their civilian competition in an interview.

I'll try and come back and edit with some of the programs out there most don't have a clue your tax dollars are paying for. Meanwhile google Christopher Smith 100K and read about a Special Forces troop that is riding competitive cycle races and former President Bush's annual 100K ride ride with ONE leg. He is still on Active Duty and JUMPS. He is in my class this week, these kind of people are why I do what I do, simply in awe of these fine Americans. Hopefully Chris will be teaching in the civilian sector soon. Hell I feel like I learned more from him the last couple days than he learned from me.

   Check out VRAP, from JohnM  5/8/2012 10:31:53 PM
VRAP will provide 99,000 eligible Veterans with up to one year of additional Montgomery GI Bill benefits in order to help you earn training and certifications in high-demand job. In order to receive these benefits, you must attend a VA approved program of education offered by a community college or technical school.

The requirements to be eligible for the VRAP program are:

You must be unemployed the day you apply

You must be least 35 but no more than 60 years old

You must have an other than dishonorable discharge

You must not be eligible for any other VA education benefit program (e.g., the Post 9/11 GI Bill, Montgomery GI Bill, Vocational Rehabilitation and Employment)

You must not in receipt of VA compensation due to Individual Unemployability (IU)

You cannot be enrolled in a federal or state job training program

You must be enrolled in a VA approved program of education offered by a community college or technical school

You can begin applying May 15, 2012, but cannot start any education or training until June 1, 2012 and you must apply to VA by March 31, 2014.

   "Troops to Energy"? from JohnM  5/8/2012 10:35:17 PM

ld ASSume if the energy companies wanted employees they would take advantage of the current tax incentives to hire a veteran. Why do we need another program to dump money into while cutting the DOD budget?

   After the 180 days here is a sampling of the from JohnM  5/8/2012 10:43:14 PM
"Audubon Area Community Services, Inc.
KWP Career Developer (Kentucky Works Program)
Ohio County, Kentucky
This job reports to the KWP Area Manager.

Relocation is not provided and travel is required for day trips only.

This is a Full-Time position, working 1st Shift.
Number of Openings for this position: 1


Job Skills/Requirements
Starting wage $10.98 hourly.Individual to prepare recipients of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) for self-sufficiency through employment training, placement and career counseling. Duties include accept referrals from the Cabinet and place clients with participating employers. Explain the KWP process to clients.

Education Requirements
- Associate of Art or Science in Business, Human Services, or related field

Additional Information/Benefits
Associate in Art or Science in Business, Human Services or related field. Position is for Ohio county, but has the potential to cover surrounding counties occasionally. Deadline: May 10, 2012

Benefits: Medical Insurance, Life Insurance, Dental Insurance, Vision Insurance, Paid Vacation, Paid Sick Days, Paid Holidays, Pension/Retirement "

This job is CURRENTLY open! UI is right at 11.00 an hour in KY. You have someone making the same as the person sitting accrues the table who does not have to EVER worked a real job trying to help the person get a professional career making more than 11.00 an hour they are making on unemployment.

What a farking joke this is!!!

Another young promoted to young Vets You have all the "programs" you want. If no one trains someone who joined the person who joined right out of high school or who served 20+ years how to transition back into the civilian world these programs are a waste of money. You may hit one in a hundred? Even my job should have some type of measured metric....we are talking tax money.

Edited 5/8/2012 10:46:15 PM

   You lost me John.......... from Hutch #10968 #10968  5/8/2012 11:17:55 PM
Far as I know Oklahoma State Bill 1863 is strictly about vets being able to obtain credit for special skills they learned in the military and has nothing to do with federal control or mandates of the system... Where did you get that portion above about federal mandates on this bill..... I am evidently missing some of the language of the bill somewhere ....... But I have kept up with it on the news and as far as I know it is just that...... a way for veterans to be able to obtain credit. You are not quoting a Senate Bill are you? And I know nothing about the VRAP and other federal stuff you are talking about.... This is a state bill...... and not the approval of a federal bill...... Guess I must have missed something..... cause I sho nuff didn't see that part about aiding spouses in gaining work..... hmmmmm Hutch

   Those accrediting bodies are regulated from D.C. from JohnM  5/9/2012 6:15:03 AM
The state can say what ever they choose but the regulating bodies in DC are going to trump all. Those colleges will have to pass those audits. I cut and pasted the part about the spouses from the web, pretty sure it was the state bill.

Like I said I'm all for Vet benefits. I'm not for using Vets as political pawns. No need in victimizing our volunteer force.

   instead of preferences from MikeF  5/9/2012 8:35:15 AM
Instead of preferences maybe the focus should be on stop killing our economy. If you give anyone preferential treatment you exclude someone else. If the economy was healthy there would be jobs for everyone who wants to work.

Plus if we weren't dependent on imported energy we would be creating so many disable vets.

It's time to wake-the-f*ck-up and start dealing with our problems instead of focusing our efforts on things that make people feel good.

And just as an FYI; a large percentage of my employees (including me) are vets. But they get hired because of their skill set and they stay because of their work ethic. IMHO that's how it should be.

   I agree Mike, but what if from Hutch #10968 #10968  5/9/2012 11:39:02 AM
Someone has received specialized training in the Military and already possesses certain skills........ shouldn't that training and education he has already received be applied towards a diploma or certification he might require in a civilian job? Hutch

   I may need to research it more John, but from Hutch #10968 #10968  5/9/2012 12:24:26 PM
This is a state bill, sponsored by state legislators with the accreditation they are talking about being at a State level also...In other words.... state accredited institutions..... Do not see the Conservative legislators in Oklahoma signing off any authority to the Federal level. My son is the perfect example...... he was an engineman in the Navy with his specialty being Diesel Engines and related Hydraulic and Electrical systems and also had advanced training and was called all over the world when they needed a specialist to align and balance engines or overhauled engine installations and trials . Naturally, having those skills helped him acquire the necessary certification to become a ship's engineer..... and he has since upgraded his "engineer classification" to a higher level 2 more times.... But, getting that first certification was a tough time...... cause he had a wife and baby..... and it cost him about a year to get certification for a job he was already more than amply trained for. Hutch

   of course from MikeF  5/9/2012 1:09:10 PM
The military should be giving degrees of some sort to the people they train. That would be the simplest way. I had 3 years of specialized training when I was in but nothing to prove it when I got out.

   Research away Hutch from JohnM  5/9/2012 4:11:21 PM
Colleges are either Regionally or Nationally Accredited then each state further regulates articulation and other various laws as long as they meet the DOE guide lines. TN & CA are two of the toughest states on these laws. I think you'll find OK vying for young people from Texas and their Hazelwood Act, could be wrong?

I came out of the military after 20 years a certified master trainer/ recruiter. That didn't mean a hill of beans to the Society of Human Resorce Management, nor was I A.S.T.D. Certified. Even my National Veterans Training Institute Alumi status means nothing to anyone but the Department of Labor. There might be ten of us with that in the entire state??? I take that's solid job security in the contracting world with amazing people so it means something to me.

I can't think of a college that accepts over half of a degree from ANYWHERE, much less work experience. This waste of mandated tax payer money through the DOE was the focus of my wife's Doctorate for the past two years.

I agree 100% if someone can prove competence why waste grant or loan money? I don't limit this to the military. If a company wasn't so afraid of law suits there would be no reason for every mechanic needs a degree. Rome was built with men who learned by reading, watching, and using critical thinking skills, all things most Vets are great with.

Are OK colleges going to take 3/4 or better of a degree from a Texas college if it's a Vet with this bill to save them time? Find the answer to that question and I think we will both have our answers.

   CDL's are another one from JohnM  5/9/2012 4:30:31 PM
We have been working for almost a year to get a trucking company or college to come on Post and test drivers for their civilian CDL. IF we could make it happen the license would only be good for TN and states that reciprocated with TN but that would be better than nothing.

Here is the rub. The Post Commander can't "endorse" a truck driving school. God Forbid the media get ahold the Army endorsing a particular truck driving school or trucking company, then we found some colleges but they are all for profit. That went over like a turd in a punch bowl. Then the question came up who is liable in case of an accident since its on the installation?

Truck driving credits don't transfer so no one in the traditional world is going to touch it. Meanwhile a year later troops that have transported stuff all over the world are getting out and going home to attend class (depending on their state) to drive a truck. You don't even want to touch a combat medic!!! Texas is working n the Medics in a couple of schools, NOT state wide.

I hear you Hutch, this is what I deal with. Prove me wrong, PLEASE.



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