DB calls out the WDNR DB calls out the WDNR
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    DB calls out the WDNR
from 1sg  
6/28/2012 2:57:46 PM



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   He certainly put a different perspective on it... from ButchT  6/28/2012 3:15:26 PM
Which is not surprising. Neat thing is he's as dead on as you can get!

   Thanks for the link 1SG from DaveT  6/28/2012 4:29:43 PM
That db nailed it again. I wish our President could understand things like db. db for President, he would get my vote.

Edited 6/28/2012 4:30:40 PM

   If DB is correct and BASS really cares, why doesn't BASS put their attorneys on it....... from Jmac #10965 #10965  6/28/2012 4:44:06 PM
and fight for future tournaments there? There have been several cases over the years where supposed public waters have been restricted or allowed to be restricted by either a state government or private entity and BASS and FLW have done nothing except say it is not right, fish their tournament and move to the next venue to push their products.

   What a crock of Chit. from Fisherboy #10852 #10852  6/28/2012 4:56:19 PM

But lets give a round of praise to the young men and women who laid their lives on the line, so some asshole with no "dog in the fight" can use the very document and principles for which they fought and died for as a propaganda tool because a commercial enterprise has been regulated to a certain area.


   fisherboy-I think you are missing a point from Beartrap   6/28/2012 5:27:44 PM
or at least a point i agree with.....dnr really has no business sticking their nose into a bass tournament...especially when 100 fishermen could launch their boats same time and place,bring their fish back from anywhere and either eat or release them.....
apply these same principles and local law enforcement could start regulating formula I races that traditionally have used roped off public streets.....as a guy in argentina told me once.....America is supposed to be land of the free yet it is one of the most regulated countries on earth.....
am firm believer in that old adage "that government which governs least,governs best".....

and while I'm on my soapbox,other than stocking florida strain bass,I haven't anything the DNR has done to help our fisheries...slot limits,size limits...none of that has done anything except hinder fishermen....

    from ButchT  6/28/2012 5:50:34 PM

Edited 6/29/2012 4:45:21 AM

   DB is right...it's MUCH bigger than this tournament from Jeff Hahn  6/28/2012 6:03:58 PM
The issue is, indeed, freedom. And, unfortunately, most Americans couldn't define the word nor give meaningful examples of it. Oh, they could come up with ideas that they think are freedom, but in reality are not. Have you ever seen Jay Leno's man on the street interviews where he asks VERY simple civics questions? That's the general state of affairs...and we wonder how politicians (on both sides of the isle) get elected.

Too often, many of us complain that the government has taken away our freedom. WRONG! If you want to know who's responsible for our loss of freedom just look in the mirror. As Americans, we have given away our freedom, often with both hands. When we ask government to do us a "special favor" to provide funds for some special purpose we have, and government does it, it's a loss of freedom for someone...if nothing else a loss of freedom to spend their own money by the people who were taxed in order to fund "our" special project. And, if we get government to fund our special project, what do you think groups do who have other special projects...they also ask government to fund their special project. The result is that government spending a gazillion dollars on countless special projects. all of which restrict our freedom...by taxing away our money and my issuing 10 gazillion new rules and regulations.

We need to be able to petition the government...or engage in lobbying, if that's what you want to call it. A government must be forced to hear what citizens have to say. However, the government MUST be limited by the constitution as to what actions it can take in the form of constitutional amendments. What we need are constitutional safeguards that prevent government from taking from some to give to others. Until then, government will continue to grow in power. And, since the relationship between government power and individual freedom is ZERO-SUM, every ounce of government growth takes away at least an ounce of personal freedom.

But, so many folks have their head up their azz and are so short sighted that all they think about is getting the government to do their bidding, enact laws they favor, and stop the other guys from doing X, Y, and Z, that the result has been a loss of freedom that our founding fathers would find chilling. Yes, many people think that trading a tiny bit of freedom is a small price to pay for more security...I believe it was Ben Franklin who said (paraphrasing)..."Those who think that trading freedom for security will find that they have neither. Those who keep their freedom and not trade it for security will have a great measure of both."

In light of our loss of freedom, take a couple minutes and read the Declaration of Independence and see if it is not still applicable to our situation today. Most of us are just as pizzed at our government as the founding fathers were at old King George. It's time we enact laws that limit the power of the government to do things that take away our freedom.

Jeff Hahn

For a real education on the principles of freedom, read Milton Freidman's small book "Capitalism and Freedom"

   agree with Jeff on one point from MikeF  6/28/2012 6:17:24 PM
You cannot help any specific group of people without having some negative effect on everyone that is outside of that group. That should be taught starting in the first grade.

On the rest of this I'm on the fence. BASS is a business and the decisions they make are what is best for themselves and they should be. I do not know the owners personally so I don't think I can answer if they also consider what is best for the people fishing these tournaments and fishermen in general or not. I haven't seen much that says they do.

As for the WI DNR; they work for the state and should be doing the biding of the citizens of that state as directed by elected officials. So maybe this is what they want. We don't know that either.

   Great Post Jeff, and oh so from DaveT  6/28/2012 6:26:17 PM
True. Thanks for putting into words many of us think, but could never write them as good as you just did. Thank you Sir.

   Well, I believe this is a state's rights issue from Tim #10364 #10364  6/28/2012 6:34:48 PM
Beartrap What does DNR stand for? In particular, WI DNR. That would be Wisconsin Department of Natural Resourses. Since the 10th amendment of the US Constitution says "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." I believe WI DNR has every right to stick their nose into bass tournaments that use the waters they are charged with. I agree they go overboard in WI in that they claim ALL waters (including private property) they have domain over, ie, fishing and boating. Wisconsin and its people have chosen to do it that way.
Their legal authority to set limitations or a boundary for the Tx is no different than them regulating the size limits, no cull rules, no fishing within 50 ft of a gas fueling marina, etc.

If you and DB believe in the Constution, then you have to acknowledge that WI DNR can set what ever rules for their own waters, whether you like them or not.

Edited 6/28/2012 6:37:33 PM

   Canceled from g2072  6/28/2012 7:14:50 PM
They should have just canceled the tournament when the restriction was announced and issued a memo stating that they were canceling the tournament and wouldn't be back because of the ruling by the WI DNR. It should have been that simple. Bass can hold tournaments almost anywhere and are actually welcomed in most places.

   tim-technically speaking you're right from Beartrap   6/28/2012 7:21:03 PM
they do have that right but my argument is that they should not have that right and IMHO their authority should be severely curtailed...
they have shown by numerous actions over the years that they are anti tournament and have a low regard for bass fishermen....they just got rid of a no-cull rule due to political pressure and it should have been done away with years ago...it never accomplished anything but keeping tournaments away...they are one of the few states that have a closed season despite ample biological evidence that it does nothing to help the fishery....
confining the elite series to a small portion of lake Michigan does nothing for the fishery and there is no reason for it except to feed the ego of small minded administrators and their insatiable urge to regulate...

   Victims of our own apathy. from TroyJ/Angling Alabama   6/29/2012 3:45:31 AM
Jeff points out (I think) what I have believed for years and which is that we are victims of our own apathy. The demise of our individualism will be disguised as "liberty". What many people think liberty is, is not what liberty is.

In context, despite the perceived regulatory overreach of the WIDNR, the pros seem to be making the best of it. A lot of limits were caught, and a lot of 13+ pound limits were put on the scales. It has evolved into an interesting challenge to watch.

My old boss used to say, "planning without action is hallucination". There is always a lot of babble about what should be done, but little getting off the couch to do it. The complexity of the WI issue is that the public may see the bass tournament as an assault on the resource that the public pays for, and thus demands protection. The walleye, trout, musky and perch jerking crowd is way supreme in terms of numbers and in the generation of annual state revenue up there. Again, right now it appears that BASS and the pros are making the best of the circumstances.

I don't have a dog in the fight, that's for sure. (And I've been in a lot of political wars). I'm just enjoying watching the show as a fan and at face value. But I do know the question, and that is - who is going to do anything about it? And I do know the answer. Probably nobody.

Edited 6/29/2012 3:48:36 AM

Edited 6/29/2012 3:50:37 AM

Edited 6/29/2012 3:51:47 AM

   Troy from Jeff Hahn  6/29/2012 8:19:45 AM
Troy: Remember this scene from Star Wars...too real,

Jeff Hahn

   Now I see why ButchT went to FB from 1sg  6/29/2012 11:28:19 AM
I posted something a friend of mine and Butch's (DB) wrote and if you read between the lines....you could apply it to many things in life.

even if he referenced a document some of us have fought for.

And someone...fisherboy calls him an Asswipe??????????????

I think I will take a little break from this name calling hateful, place I used to like to frequent!

   Thanks for that memoiry Jeff. from TroyJ/Angling Alabama   6/30/2012 2:46:26 PM
I had totally forgotten, and so true.



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