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    Heartache and Anger
from Tim #10364 #10364  
8/22/2012 10:43:37 PM


 From Miltary.com. Click here for the full story.

'My Son Trained Somebody to Murder Him'

Aug 20, 2012
Military.com| by Richard Sisk

The grief-stricken father of a slain Marine lashed out at the U.S. training policies with the Afghan National Security Forces. His son’s death became one of many recent insider attacks leading to high-level meetings between U.S. and Afghan leader to re-evaluate their training methods.

“At the end of the day, what happened is my son trained somebody to murder him,” Greg Buckley Sr. said at the funeral Saturday for Lance Cpl. Gregory T. Buckley, 21, of Oceanside, N.Y., according to a CBS report.

The Afghan recruits “come in, they say, ‘We want to be police officers,’ and we hand them a blue uniform and hand them an AK-47? That’s insane,” the father told CBS as he stood surrounded by family and friends wearing buttons with a picture of his fallen son in uniform.

“If my son died on the battlefield, I would’ve been -- maybe been -- able to accept that, but instead they killed him inside the gym,” said Buckley Sr., according to CBS.

Buckley; Staff Sgt. Scott E. Dickinson, 29, of San Diego, Calif.; and Cpl. Richard A. Rivera Jr., 20 of Ventura, Calif., were shot to death on Aug. 10 while they worked out at a base gym in the southwestern Helmand province. The assailant allegedly was an unvetted 15-year-old “tea boy” who was the personal aide to the local Afghan district police chief, the Washington Post reported.

The grief and anger of Buckley’s father reflected the opinions of most Americans. Numerous recent polls have shown that a majority believe the war in Afghanistan is not worth fighting.

While services were held for the young Marine in Long Island, N.Y., Defense Secretary Leon Panetta called Afghan President Hamid Karzai to curb the growing incidents of “insider attacks” by Afghans wearing uniforms that have killed at least 109 coalition troops since 2007 -- 39 since January, including 25 Americans.

...more at Military.com...

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   So sad...we should have gotten out of there a long time from Bill Hunter  8/22/2012 10:51:22 PM
ago. I don't understand why our government cannot see that the people who live in that region don't have a clue as to our way of life and I don't think they are really interested. They don't want to change there way of living. Get our guys and gals out of there. (yeah I know, I'm dumb)...

   there was never a good reason to be in Afghanistan from MikeF  8/22/2012 10:59:41 PM
The only reason we're there is so the liberals can say it was the right war. They are sacrificing American lives for political gain. I hope they rot in hell.

   Have we forgotten? No, some have not. from BCB #10868  8/22/2012 11:31:14 PM
Where were you on September 11, 2001? In a few weeks we will all pause to remember that day.

We have done some good in Afghanistan and many who were there see that. Is there an achievable goal? We have no idea quite what outcome our efforts will see. Though the objective was al qaeda, no caps as they don't deserve that. bin laden and more fell to our reactive military response.

Iraq is easy to ask or wonder why we were there, Afghanistan had a very defined purpose some 11 Years ago. Perhaps we need an objective redefined as we exit the country, though it had a very exact reason for this conflict. Have we softened to the point of accepting an enemy can violate our country.

Today's new soldiers and voters were 7 years old when we entered this conflict and we should not forget to educate them on why we are there. There is no way they can realize the lumps in our throats and patriotism in our hearts. Otherwise there is no purpose to the emotions we all shared on September 11, 2001. Otherwise the loss of any American before, during, or associated to this conflict looses value.

Are there issues with these conflicts, yes! Though let's not forget why we are there.

Where we're you?

Edited 8/22/2012 11:45:19 PM

   Really bad policy. from TroyJ/Angling Alabama   8/22/2012 11:41:01 PM
The Rooskies couldn't root out the Rabs with their tactics, how did we think we were going to do it, especially keeping one hand tied back on our military? America don't have the stomach for what it would really take, and twinkyfied political military policy won't cut it. Those people over there need their own William Wallace. Where is he when you need him? But they don't understand or give sanctity to freedom, liberty and rights. It's a no win. If it don't comply, kill it. Comply or die. But we won't do that.

Again we have laid out our sons and daughters for the slaughter because we refuse to support what they know they need to do.

Bring our boys and girls home. Then use the entire country for a bomb testing site for the next 1000 years. It's all the place is good for.

Oh yes, and take their oil. (Grin).

Edited 8/22/2012 11:43:07 PM

   liberals----> Seriously? from Brad  8/23/2012 12:02:34 AM
you're bankrupt

That was the last bad check on your rhetorical BS account! you are overdraft by more than your opinion is worth...

liberals brought us to war; really?

make that point!

Obama ran on a platform that increased troop deployment into Afghanistan and i didn't hear a single objection from the warmongers!

Suddenly, you OPEN your eyes??? Hate to break it to you, but not a whole hell of a lot has changed since the invasion. Where are the cheerleaders now...

Bill, what inhibited you from giving that very same opinion back in '01???

actually, i don't blame you. Back than when i had the audacity to suggest that this would be a HUGE mistake--(loved ones dieing) supposedly good and decent folk* right here said that i should be deca....... by the taliban for being a terrorist. I kid you not-

History has a funny way of sending shards of reality through brief periods of reflection...

but this too, shall pass~

and we will make the same mistakes eyes wide open, time after time after time..

   Let em win or bring em home! from JohnM  8/23/2012 12:26:14 AM
   "Let em win" is code from Brad  8/23/2012 2:10:29 AM
for abandoning the thing that we are there to preserve--if it isn't the sancanty of life, then what?

"Let em win" means we should remove the rules of engagement--REGARDLESS of whether we are engaged in a neighborhood or the landscape.

"Let em win" means we blow up the house with women and children because some COWARD breaks in for refuge???

"Let em win" means strafe the entire compound?

How do you rationalize your version of "Let em win" with the stated goal of "winning the hearts and minds?"


   Rules of Engagement from g2072  8/23/2012 3:21:47 AM
There should not be any rules of engagement. It is pure stupidity to give someone an advantage in a war. Do you think the enemy is concerned in any way about any rules of engagement. If we are going to send our soldiers into battle let them do what they have to to make sure they come home. The ONLY objective should be search and destroy. If you are going to handcuff them with stupid things to get them killed bring them home.

Edited 8/23/2012 3:22:11 AM

   I vote to sent Brad over there from fatboy #9897  8/23/2012 6:08:43 AM
He'll have it cleaned up in no time, or not!

   Objective of War................ Rules of Engagement from Bender, MS Gulf Coast  8/23/2012 6:37:47 AM
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."---George S. Patton

   Sad Deal Prayers for the Buckley family from DaveT  8/23/2012 7:05:43 AM
Our leaders did change the rules of engagement, and not for the better.

   I totally agree with BCB..................... from Jmac #10965 #10965  8/23/2012 8:17:20 AM
I never had a problem going into Afghanistan after Sept. 11, but I do wonder sometimes about Iraq.

   Agree with Troy and others from Skipper  8/23/2012 8:37:40 AM
We can't fight a war like this. The military is there to kill people and break things, end of story. It's purpose is not to re-educate, train, or build a nation. What we ought to have done in Both Iraq and Afghanistan if we were going there is set up our perimeter and keep their darned buts away from our people and our equipment. You can't fight a war with the enemy walking around among you.

   Sorry, I don't believe going in was right. We have from Bill Hunter  8/23/2012 8:41:05 AM
superior air and sea power and it should have been used. Our young men and women did not have to die to stop the agression...our bombs could have easily taken care of that and yes Brad, women and children would have been killed. War is indeed a type of Hell. Either way they are killed.....BUT here's the bottom line, THEY don't care....once again...they don't understand us and don't want to be like us and they cannot and will lnot be forced to be like us. BRING OUR MEN AND WOMEN HOME!

   either fight to win or come home from MikeF  8/23/2012 8:55:11 AM
liberals live in a fairytale world of campfires and sing-a-longs where everyone is your friend. War sucks but losing a war sucks more. If you want friends go to summer camp if you have enemies that are a problem end them.

The rules of engagement are causing unnecessary deaths of Americans. If we stayed for 100 years nothing would be different the day we left. We have the technology to kill remotely; if there are people worth killing use a drone.

BTW my position on Iraq has never changed either; we should have bombed them until nothing was left standing and let them sort it out. If we didn't like how they sorted it out we could do it again. We should have never put American soldiers on the ground. None of those people are worth one American life.

   Ever read the story of our "Horse Soldiers" Brad? from JohnM  8/23/2012 9:23:09 AM
We had the mess in Afghanistan well under control very quick. Due to playing nice not patting down men because of their religion, letting the enemy decide where we were going to keep POW's we lost many good men and the tide turned. If Clinton would have made te call maybe we would have never been there in he first place????

I asked you a question about spending on smart bombs yesterday, today you throw it back at me, which is it???

Let em win means give a clear objective of a "win" and let the military get to business doing what it does. In the case of Afghanistan we have done all we can IMO. We put our puppet leader in, he now wants us out.....fine. Good luck with the Taliban when we are gone.

BTW, when we come back we won't be putting a puppet leader in place. It'll be to wipe out anyone appearing like the people that made the attack on America. Thats coming, count on it.

Brad you need to find a few friends that speak their language and hang out in places where they hang out not speaking English. You might learn something?

   JohnM from Jeff Hahn  8/23/2012 9:31:14 AM
John said to Brad "You might learn something?" John, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Brad knows everything and has nothing to learn, especially from us. Of course, that's a liberal for you...they are elitist in the extreme, believing that only they know what is good for others.

Jeff Hahn

   We should leave today! Leave a note on Karzai's desk saying from Oneeyedjack #13663 #13663  8/23/2012 9:38:47 AM
clean this mess up or we'll be back with every bomb we have in our arsenal. Mean it!

There is no incentive for the rabble in that place to do any better - the money still rolls in.

Brad whines about "rules of engagement". That is the most absurd and assinine of ideas ever conceived. You cannot win a war with your hands tied behind you. Your enemy has no rules!

   War is war, you would think from Hammer  8/23/2012 9:42:49 AM
that we would have figured it out again by now, but war changed starting in Korea. It's to political now. Let the military do their job, keep the dang press and video cameras out of it and do the job that needs to be done and get out.

   AMEN Hammer! from Bill Hunter  8/23/2012 10:19:22 AM

   we are fighting a war suitable for TV viewing from Beartrap   8/23/2012 10:23:49 AM
agree with everything mike said....none of those countries are worth one American soldier..if they attack us anywhere in the world,we have the technology to make them pay for it a thousand times over....
and while I'm on my soapbox,we need to start kicking all muslims out of this country...any religion that has as a basic tenet "infidels are the enemy" needs to be classified as just another terrorist organization and treated as such.....
look at the problems Europe is having with muslims and we are looking at same thing 15-20 years from now....

   Not fighting to win is just part of the problem...... from Hutch #10968 #10968  8/23/2012 11:10:54 AM
The other thing we need to consider is that our problems with Pakistan aren't going away.....and Afghanistan is the logical staging area for our efforts there (both now and in the future) Everyone is right about the TV war that Obama put in place..... and I pray for our soldiers every day to have to be a part of the Obama side show, but we need to kick ass and take names...... or get the hell out... Hutch

   Brad's short sightedness. from TroyJ/Angling Alabama   8/23/2012 6:30:51 PM
As I've said before, the Japs are the best behaved other country on the planet thanks to who? Fatman and Little Boy, that's who. Japan now understands the sanctity of life and they haven't gotten out of line since.

The sanctity of life is a long-term ideal. In order to "change the hearts and minds", the entirety of the social environment must be modified, or it won't work and won't last. Changing the hearts and minds is a non-realistic goal to place upon the lives of servicemen and women unless the first priority is realized, and that is wiping out the old hearts and minds.

Friends over there tell me that there have no doubt been some isolated great moments of helping some of the people see things differently, but unless you stop the evil from oppressing the innocent it will be failure. The innocent will continue to suffer because the gutless will not do what needs to be done, and the sanctity of "life" becomes impossible to achieve.

Edited 8/23/2012 6:35:38 PM

   Guys from BCB #10868  8/23/2012 6:57:41 PM
There are some really good opinions here and Hahn, John M and others have grasped the overall perspectives. No disagreement with most opinions here.

Just so you guys all know, when an opinion piece goes up here it is only me, Rick Pierce. The other moderators may chime in on the Boat and Motors or to help a person, though here it is all me when BCB posts.

Thanks for the concern and some here know more than others the grief, joy and challenges our soldiers have.


   Thank's Rick from Skipper  8/23/2012 8:43:21 PM
There are some principals that some of us grew up with that apply here.

In my hunter's ed classes I always attempt to get it in their heads that you never point a gun at something you do not want to destroy. In that context my example is people who scan a field or woods with their rifle scope looking for game. In the process they are pointing the business end of the rifle at everything they are looking at. It might be a house in the distance, a vehicle on a road, another hunter, who knows. Binoculars are for looking rifle scopes are for aiming.

In this case Involving the US Military in a police action or nation building, or whatever it is they are doing in these wars is the equivalent of scanning through a scope.

Grandpa and dad always told me "Never pull a pistol when you do not intend to shoot. If you do pull it be sure there's fire coming out the end of it."

FWIW: Dad spent 25 years in the Army.

   Do many of you guys understand from Bender, MS Gulf Coast  8/23/2012 9:54:13 PM

The Strategic importance of Afghanistan? Of Iraq, Turkey and Iran and entire Arabian Peninsula? Take a look at the east and North of this region. These folks are NOT little postage stamp size countries that are not a threat to us as Obama says. He who controls the Middle East Controls the World and it has been so for thousands of years. AFghanistan is dead in the middle of the Region.

Edited 8/23/2012 9:55:53 PM

   Good post, Bender. from PPEN  8/24/2012 10:33:25 AM
If we recognize the critical aspect of Afghanistan in how the world turns we need to ask ourselves if we truly stand ready to pay the cost (With borrowed money) to accomplish the mission. I suspect the citizens of the USA are war weary and not much interested in incurring more costs of war at this time.



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