# 1077: Is monogamy natural? Really? Let's hear from both genders. 9/16/99 12:53:00 PMNonFishing Adult Section of the Bass Fishing Home Page

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SUBJECT: # 1077: Is monogamy natural? Really? Let's hear from both genders.

Submitted by Robert Williams (206.99.207.62) from CONNECTICUT on 9/16/1999 12:53:00 PM

Personally, I think monogamy is not a natural condition for humans. This isn't to say that I don't consider the sanctity of marriage to be of great importance. I think maintaining a monogamous relationship with your spouse is crucial to maintaining the foundation of the marriage. I think it is also crucial to your spirituality.

But I think we are genetically predisposed to spread our seed liberally, distributing our genes across every possible channel.

The human race survived by proliferating and what worked a few thousand years ago isn't really pertinent, anymore. But the genetics that got us here haven't had a chance to catch up with our social structure and religious ideals.

But, as always, I could be wrong. Raise your hand if you're married and have NEVER entertained... thoughts... that didn't involve your spouse.

9/16/1999 1:06:00 PM Submitted by Gonefishin (206.138.130.2) from MARYLAND says Monogamy
I have never cheated on my wife at least physically, but if thoughts counted, probably thousands of times. I cannot tell you the number of times that my head has snapped back to look at an attractive women that has walked past me or driven past me. The sunglasses really allow this reaction to go undetected when the wife is with me. Looking but not touching is harmless.
9/16/1999 1:09:00 PM Submitted by "Phantom" (38.194.90.115) from TEXAS says Not me..............
For me, monogamy is the only way, even in a dating situation. I have many friends that, while single, dated several at once but I just can't seem to do that. When I'm seeing someone, I see only that person. I have no problem with others dating more than one at a time, I even tried it myself, just couldn't do it. (and I'm not an unattractive person, no Adonis, but 6'0", 180 lbs and not unattractive). I have never "cheated", even in a dating situation and certainly not while I was married. Yes, I lusted after lots, daydreamed lots, etc....but I just won't cheat, it's wrong!
Robert, I believe there could be something to what you are saying about our genetic predisposition to spread our seed, and it sure is a pleasant thing to do, but I guess it's just not for me.
The Phantom of "10/2 Point"
9/16/1999 1:15:00 PM Submitted by Robert Williams (206.99.207.62) from CONNECTICUT says Just to make sure there's no misunderstanding.
This wasn't in any way meant to condone adultery. It's not an excuse for breaking your vows. I think this should carry through to any committed relationship even if you're not yet married. The real question was whether monogamy is a natural state or whether it goes against our genetic programming.
9/16/1999 1:16:00 PM Submitted by Swampy (209.149.52.70) from FLORIDA says Sunglasses won't protect you, Gonefishin...
...I guarantee you she's making note and you pay for it later.
Robert - You're not going to find anyone who hasn't at least had impure thoughts. I don't personally consider that "cheating" though.
9/16/1999 1:24:00 PM Submitted by "Phantom" (38.194.90.115) from TEXAS says Genetic programming?
Thanx for clarifying RW. Undecided at this point but leaning towards monogamy as a natural state. Y'all can pick me apart on this, but look at all the other critters we know mate for life. And gee, since I stay monogamous, does that make me genetically superior! :)
At the onset, but interested in other opinions, I'm going with "natural state".
The Phantom of "10/2 Point"
9/16/1999 1:29:00 PM Submitted by Becky (129.61.10.216) from FLORIDA says To Answer Your Question
No. It's not natural. But it's got nothing to do with proliferating. It's because we are all sinners, and we lust after sins of the flesh. (Some much more than others.) Some people rarely even entertain thoughts of this type. There is spiritual warfare going on around us all the time. Because we are human, it's natural to sometimes entertain sinful thoughts. If the enemy senses a weakness in this area, he will use that as a means of gaining a foothold. If he's successful, these "thoughts" are turned into action. Then you've got real problems. Remember the guy who posted asking if it was committing adultery regarding his secret masturbation rendezvous with the banker? If I remember correctly, I think all but one agreed that this was in fact adultery, and many of you took it a step further and let him know that if he kept it up, they would most certainly end up "going all the way." I know some of you are probably thinking "There she goes spouting religion again." I guess my point is that we have an innate sense of morality, and if there was no God we would not have it. IOW, it's natural (human) to lust, but we ALL know the difference between right and wrong. I've never cheated on my husband and never will, but I think the guilt would kill me. I doubt there's many people out there who don't seriously regret cheating if they ever did it. If there was no God-given sense of morality, we'd all end up "doing" every person we took a shine to like most lower animals do. There would also be no love, as we (humans) are the only creatures of God capable of this emotion.
9/16/1999 1:32:00 PM Submitted by Becky (129.61.10.216) from FLORIDA says P.S. BTW, Robert W.
Am I to gather from your post that we will "evolve" out of proliferating? or that we have an innate sense of spreading our seed to "be fruitful" and, therefore, monogamy is not natural? (Not being a smart-aleck. I just really didn't quite get your point.)
9/16/1999 1:36:00 PM Submitted by Wannabe (209.149.145.162) from MISSISSIPPI says Oh, come on RW........
that's the most transparent come on to Becky and Ann to date. You can do better.
BTW, it looks like you can cross Becky off the list.
Becky: have you ever read (help me out here, can't remember the title or author, maybe Max Lucato (sp)) about the spiritual warfare between angels and demons going on around us. Great book and I think of it often.
Wannabe...
9/16/1999 1:39:00 PM Submitted by Jr (158.28.25.97) from PENNSYLVANIA says I'd like to add a rider to the question.
Everyone has probably had thoughts about cheating. Has anyone actually given serious thought as to how to cheat with a specific someone. I mean more than the casual girl walks by and doesn't she look great/I wonder what she would be like etc. I'm talking about actual plans. Personally I haven't.
Good question
JR
9/16/1999 1:44:00 PM Submitted by McCoy (205.188.197.23) from TENNESSEE says Cheating
Jimmy Carter said it best. A penis is a terrible thing to waste if you have one. Did he say that? No, that was Clinton, wasn't it?
I have never cheated on my wife or a girlfriend, but I have looked and lusted. I have also had a couple of offers which I turned down.
9/16/1999 1:44:00 PM Submitted by Dusky Guy (198.4.92.5) from FLORIDA says monogomy
I think it is "natural" to look, lust,think about others. In Nature this is carried out to the next step in "most" critters. Still even in the wild there are animals that mate for life. The human is a MUCH more spiritual animal, and I think this is where the monogamy comes from. Sex is just that...sex. Hey, I love it. But it is more than just that that makes me happy. The relationship I have makes the "sex" something great. I too could never manage more than one at a time. My other half is actually my best spotter, we both look, its's fun. but that does not make either of us act on it.
Or, Maybe I am just too lazy to go thru the crap to do it. I hated the dating thing as an adult. It was bad when young, worse as an adult.
S.
9/16/1999 1:51:00 PM Submitted by Robert Williams (206.99.207.62) from CONNECTICUT says Becky. Your post was an answer. Mine was just a question.
And I left the answer open ended, although I tried to provide a little fodder for some thought, right, wrong or indifferent.
I expect my wife to be my only partner as long as both of us are alive.
9/16/1999 2:00:00 PM Submitted by Jr (158.28.25.97) from PENNSYLVANIA says Flushing RW
no msg
9/16/1999 2:17:00 PM Submitted by Ann (166.102.153.12) from ARKANSAS says I vote unnatural.....
I think eons ago, when the population count was considerably less, monogamy was not natural. To improve a species, you need new bloodlines. However, this no longer applies since the world population is at an all-time high.
Religion and the fear of going to hell is what keeps the majority of people humane. Think of the lawlessness that would pervade if people weren't worried of repercussions.
As the good Jimmy Carter said...yes, I have lusted in my heart. Even share a few of those impure thoughts with my husband...keeps things exciting.
9/16/1999 2:46:00 PM Submitted by Becky (129.61.10.216) from FLORIDA says Wannabe
I don't think I've read that book. Let me know if you remember the name of it. It sounds similar to one my husband is reading right now called "The Bondage Breaker" by Neil Anderson, which is really having an impact on him. You might enjoy it too. Another one I recommend to EVERYONE is Mere Christianity (C. S. Lewis). The books has many subjects in it, but he speaks often of the forces of good and evil more from an intellectual point of view (though he was a Christian). This is an excellent book for anyone who's not quite sure if God exists or is undecided on creationism.
9/16/1999 3:54:00 PM Submitted by Arpy (206.69.144.122) from ILLINOIS says One woman man
Sorry boys, but it's like this. If you are treating your woman the way she is supposed to be treated you don't have the time or the energy for someone else. The young bucks that I teach college classes for are very much into looks and shapes. But when you get past the boobs and butts thing, and you get a little wiser, you are left with one unalterable truth, "Sooner or later you are going to have to talk to her." Love is a verb, not a noun. If you find one that makes you happy AND likes to fish, life can be very, very good! Tight lines.
9/16/1999 5:13:00 PM Submitted by PJzaBruin (205.188.192.177) from CALIFORNIA says I have to side with the geneticists...
who explain it this way...
The urge to procreate and continue the species is one of the strongest natural urges we have. For men, this would include attempting to impregnate every available female, in hopes of continuing YOUR line of the species. For women, there are two possible strategies: Monogamy, yielding a mate who will help raise/nurture the offspring, or polygamn, yielding multiple mates who cannot be sure they did NOT sire the offspring, and will contribute to their well-being.
That said, I am a fiercely loyal, one-woman man, who would never seriously entertain any thought of being anything else. Although folks like JWL and McCoy may tell you Liberals will just "do what feels good" and condone it all, it shows their lack of understanding their fellow man.
And Becky, please don't try to convince me that animals can't feel love. I had two dogs who loved each other dearly, were very protective of one another, and the one clearly mourned when the other passed away. And since one was neutered and one was spayed, I don't think sex had any part of it.
SOY!!!
9/16/1999 9:16:00 PM Submitted by Steve Haut (216.166.44.119) from TEXAS says natural?
Well... I love my lovely bride more than anything. We are very open with each other. I volinteer(spl) at the Houston Livestock show & Rodeo and Pasadena Livestock show & Rodeo. Before my wedding vows, one of the founders of both spoke to my wife about those weeks. As far as my wife is concerned, we are both single during the rodeos. Gives a little relief during the marriage years. Lets you go out chase some tail. there is a litle roping allowed, but the final buzzer never sounds. For the longest time she had a dance hall boyfriend. Met her at the dance hall, danced, bought drinks and such. When he found out she was married, he went balistic. I had to go up the next weekend and explain to him, that I was not gonna whoop him and keep her drunk, saves me money.
Most think we have a strange relationship, but the only person we end up in bed is each other. There is none of that, grass is greener on the other side stuff.
Steve Haut