|
|
|
|
|
|
|
SUBJECT: # 38101: Getting started in the Charter business
Submitted by Bill (172.142.36.224) from TEXAS on 11/17/2002 8:09:00 PM
I have some questions for the folks on this board, if you don't mind. I am thinking about starting an offshore charter business in Texas. I am trying to figure out what I really have to do/have and not. Do I really need a captains "6 pack" license and if so who checks/enforces that? Do I need any other special licenses or permits? There is apparently some license that national marine fisheries requires and they are real close to not issuing those any longer for fish management issues. Do I really need this and who enforces having one? Do I need extra insurance to cover a "for hire" operation or could I have each customer sign some kind of waiver? Thanks in advance!
- 11/18/2002 7:08:00 AM
Submitted by
ricko (134.216.26.8) from GA says oupv
Yes you need the oupv license. If you take out people for hire, you must have the license. The Coast Guard for one enforces it.As Captain, you are responsible for the lives on board your vessel. Based on your lack of knowing anything about the basics, you need to rethink do this as a "hobby". You can't get the oupv without an up to date first aid class, cpr class, Drug test, Current coast guard approved physical.
You also have to be sworn in by the Coast guard if you are able to pass the test.
- 11/18/2002 1:45:00 PM
Submitted by
kamper (12.10.219.46) from NH says "Waivers" aren't worth the paper they're written on.
For example, when you go to the hospital you sign a "release" and there is language in it absolving everybody at the hospital for doing it wrong, operating on the wrong part. removing the wrong part... but I digress.My point is, even with this "release" which is another way of saying "waiver," doctors and hospitals get sued all the time. If you dont have any insurance for your business you will have to pay your own lawyers retainer-fees up front to get someone to take your case and if you were at fault you will still be held liable. And that will take all the fun out of it.
- 11/18/2002 2:27:00 PM
Submitted by
Ollie Bear from CA says Without a skipper's ticket, no insurance cmpany will give you a policy.
Think aboutit, who would cover you with insurance when you have not shown any credentials for being a skipper? What is your basic knowledge in seamanship? Boat handling, handling in an emergency? Radio frequency usage? Just basic marine traffic navigation in the harbor?The basic knowledge just to sit for the skipper's license requries severarl thousand hours of on the water work time. That's why deckies work for slave wages; they need the hours, and the on hand experince, and being a deckie is their apprenticeship.
After you get your ticket, you are just legal to drive a boat for hire. What is your experience in truly handling a boatin rough seas? Disaster drills? Fire on baord? what if the motor quits? Distress calls, How to tow or be towed?
What kind of charter will you be doing? Fishing? What kind of experience and knowledge do you have in fishing? Special spots? How to drift correctly? How to anchor over a wreck or drift over a wreck? Seasons? trolling, rigging outriggers, all those tricks like bait and switch, rigging bimini twists and albright specials and crimping and bait rigging, and stiching up 'hoos, double hooking, chumming, controlling a chum slick, how to chum bomb, how to gaff, making good head shot gaffing, plus a thousand other things that only come with experienfce from decking someone else's boat.
There is a good book in the large bookstores called Making your Captain's License, or something like that. It is a tutorial with thousands of questions plus a CD to take a practice test. Kinda like SAT or LSAT prep books. You should look into i. But right, now, it does not sound like you've even got the basics down yet. It's a long haul, but every journey starts with the first step.....
- 11/18/2002 4:03:00 PM
Submitted by
Capt. Buddy (66.167.171.119) from FL says No way!!!
Just get some business cards and have at it. What could go wrong that you'd need insurance for?Insurance, permits, licenses, safety gear, those are for chumps. And speaking of chumps, be sure to tell all the real captains and guides in the area what you are doing. I'm sure they'll be a big help and send you some of their overflow customers. Hell, they might even give you some of their good GPS numbers.
- 11/18/2002 7:30:00 PM
Submitted by
Local Motion from NY says the real pass/fail question...
...after you go through the entire ordeal of becoming legal, licensed, insured, geared-up, etc., as outlined above (and there is more).......can you produce fish on a regular basis?All these things will take time.
Shortcuts will not work. Word travels fast, no secrets on the water, someone will report you if you operate illegally and even if they 'think' you may be operating illegally.
Keep asking questions and study and FISH and if you really want it, it will evolve over a period of time. You can get your experience by chartering boats and going out as often as you can taking friends on a sharing of daily expenses only.
I was on the fence with this so many times I lost count. You may find that just going fishing with friends and friends of friends with everyone pitching in is the best way to go. The best of both worlds without the negatives of chartering. Few people make money doing this anyway. Money has a way of ruining things. I prefer to leave the money out of it and just fish, no stress, no problems, no bs....although someone did report me to the coast guard once for 'thinking' I was 'operating'. Wrong.
Whichever way you go, have fun with it and give it time. I hope there is something here of value to you, Bill.
- 11/18/2002 9:17:00 PM
Submitted by
Wide Open II (205.188.208.6) from GA says One other thing to consider is
do you really want to operate a charter business or do you just enjoy fishing with buddies. I got my OUPV and then my Master's tickets primarily for the wealth of information from the schools, but if I ever want to have something to fall back on...then perhaps. My first few charters were with friends or friends of friends. Most were good fishermen and looking for some local knowledge, etc. What many people who think a charter business might be fun or lucrative don't realize is it's very hard work....AND you never know who you will be taking out on tomorrow's trip. By that, I mean, you will be dealing with greenhorns who take every opportunity to hook you in the thumb while you're releasing a fish, puking on your boat, coming on board with black soled shoes, puking on your boat, tangling your tackle, puking on your boat, getting disgusted because they're not catching fish every second, puking on your boat, and so on. In my limited chartering experience, I've had a whining 8 year old with a seasick dad who couldn't operate a Zebco 303...yet thought he knew everything about everything, except seasickness prevention. I'm sure there are others who can tell 1000's of stories to my one. Do you really want to take rookies out in 100+ degree weather and bait their hooks all day? It takes a very special person, and my hat's off to the guides that make their living this way. By the way, the "Responsible" part means that you as captain (licensed or not) are completely responsible for the safety and well being of everyone on board and the safety of your vessel. That's something every boat owner should get a good helping of.My $.02
WO II
- 11/22/2002 3:21:00 PM
Submitted by
Doug (166.102.184.153) from GA says At what point do you need licenses
I take people out from Ft. Morgan all the time, mostly because if I only have 2 or 3 on board I limit out and have to come in before dark.They ( 6 or 8 people) pitch in 50 to 75 per day. I pull the 240 t/engine 485 miles. Rent a house on the beach,leave the boat at the marina and fish hard 6 or 7 days in a row. For 8 day trip I never break even but about have the total epences.My question is am I pushing the limit for having a licenses?Waterspout out
- 11/22/2002 3:39:00 PM
Submitted by
Local Motion from NY says I think you must..
..know when you need one.When you wind up with more money at the end of the day than when you started your day, for one.
The other is you are not supposed to make the money a 'condition' for people to fish with you. Of course....you kind of have to make it a type of condition because you need to put enough gas in the boat to make the trip both ways but......it is an ethical type thing....it is how you go about the whole thing that matters. Sharing of daily expenses is just that, sharing of daily expenses...honestly.
- 11/24/2002 2:43:00 AM
Submitted by
ArtsNFlies.com from NY says Being in-the-business
This is a topic that has been discussed here before.IMHO, if it's a couple of friends getting together on someone's boat and they all agree to chip in for gas, bait, food etc. that's not doing a charter. Even if the friend's boat who you are on ends up with extra cash at the end of day (might show a not so great "friend" if he's taking money from you to go fishing and make a profit too!).
OTOH, if you (the owner/operator of the boat) hold yourself out as being a charter operation, that is you advertise/promote yourself and your services as being available for fishing charter, that I would consider being in-the-business and as such you need a CG capt's license, insurance etc etc.
- 11/27/2002 10:59:00 AM
Submitted by
capt chuck (205.172.203.118) from FL says if you accept $$
Sorry ArtsNFlies... but if you take $$ from someone, you ARE operating without a license. I know it happens ALL the time-- but it is technically illegal.Capt. Chuck
- 11/27/2002 1:36:00 PM
Submitted by
Ollie Bear from CA says For profit or for reimbursement?
If the boat owner takes a few friends for a trip and they all chip in for gas and bait, the owner is technicaly taking money, yet he is not in business and no IRS or government agency would consider that a business. The flat our definition of taking any money woudl lead to absurd results.Capt. Chuck, would you give us the CG regulatiosn and related difnitions for what consitutes operating a charter business? It may have annotated exceptions such as de minimis money and sharing of cost exceptions.
- 11/27/2002 5:54:00 PM
Submitted by
ArtsNFlies.com from NY says My thoughts too
Ollie - Didn't want to get technical but the de minimis exception was what I was thinking of. I don't think a court would agree that a couple of friends chipping in for gas, food, bait etc for the day constitutes a charter operation (then again with the courts these days who knows!). If I were on the jury, all other things being equal, I wouldn't find it a charter operation.Everytime I'm invited on someone's boat I always offer to pay my share for gas and bait. Usually the owner refuses saying I'm their guest. But sometimes they do accept some money (or ask me to pick up some bait/tackle or food). I take them at their word what I am giving them is my share and they aren't gouging me for a profit.
It's not much different from a group of people car pooling to work and splitting the cost of gas, tolls and parking. I don't think such an arrangement is considered a taxi or car-for-hire service.
- 11/28/2002 6:37:00 AM
Submitted by
Local Motion from NY says capt chuck...
...taking money to share expenses is NOT operating without a license.I never accept anything for a day of inshore fishing but I just don't have $300 to take people offshore for a 16 hour day every Saturday, wish I did. It is more reasonable to look at it like Artsnflies says........like carpooling.
As I mentioned in another post...someone did report me once cause it seemed I was having too much fun, my boat was going out while his charter boat sat in the slip. I was investigated by the First District, put all of my cards on the table and the case was immediately dropped. If the Coast Guard says I am not 'operating', then I am not.
Picking away at the exact wording of the law does no good and accomplishes nothing. We all know where the line is drawn, it is very clear to me.
Some Captains' feel that us going fishing like this 'steals' potential clients that would otherwise pay them 2 to 3 times the amount of money to go out on their boat. It is not like that, we have to scrape together that $300 to go out and sometimes it is just not there to go, all it takes is one guy backing out for whatever reason. For me and others like me it is go this way or not go at all. And I have all to do just to own my boat and keep it in turn-key condition.
I have been on the fence for getting my license for many years, chartering and charging the going rate. The reason I don't is because with all the math done, even figuring no Small Craft Advisories once a week all summer long...there is no profit for me balanced against the negatives of doing it. Money has a way of taking the fun of it. Things are great the way they are.
I give a lot of credit to the guys who can make money chartering.
No offense intended. Happy Thanksgiving. :-)
- 10/15/2007 12:05:00 AM
Submitted by
Mike (71.246.95.54) from MD says from a Coastie
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------10/15/2007 12:01:00 AM Submitted by Mike (71.246.95.54) from MD says From a person in the Coast Guard I'm a Boatswains Mate in the Coast Guard. You can now take you classes online for the OUPV "six-Pack" at www.marinersschool.com (between $480-$580). After you pass the online course you can go to one of there locations and take the final exam. After you pas they give you papers to show that you pass. After they will tell you what the coast guard needs and after the CG gets your papers they will give you your licence. You do not need your vessel inspected for a six pack. The Coast Guard will inspect you vessel if they see you on the water to make sure you have everything. I recommend doing the online because the CG regional exam center is a pain in the but to get in touch with. I'm in the CG and they still haven't returned my calls. Go to you website I provided it will tell you everything. Like I said before cg inspections are done when we want to bug you while you are having fun. Oh yeah unles you are trying to get a masters its not that hard to pass your test. Know your Navigation rules and make sure you boat has everything needed because if you don't have all you life jackets you can have your trip terminated. Yeah but its not hard. And you not have to be sworn in.
